Subconscious sinning

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thememphisman

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occasionally i will wake up during the night and be surprised to find that i am touching myself impurely, i obviously did not intend for this to happen but i feel that i was semi-conscious while it was happening and of course i feel guilty of committing mortal sin. now i do not masturbate or anything like that, its simply i will wake up with my hands places they shouldn’t be and other things like (embarrassingly) i will have taken off my underwear.
anyway, any thoughts would be awesome
 
Yeah, I’ve been sleep deprived (5 hour night’s rest) and I have slipped into an old habit. I feel I know what I’m doing, but can you still be not fully aware?

Semiwakefulness from just waking up can protect you from full culpability, but I don’t know how long it lasts.
 
We are NOT responsible for what happens while we are asleep - and it’s doubtful we have enough control over our actions even when we are half-awake to be responsible then either. There is no mortal sin in what you have described, although understandably it can be troubling.

To be absolutely clear - as long as you don’t continue with the act after you’ve woken up, there is no sin.

Two things - try as much as you can to avoid any sexually suggestive conversation, tv, radio, internet. As in turn it off, block your ears or look away, and say a prayer, if it happens. It might be happening that your brain is processing any sexual content which you see or hear during the day, so if the sexual content ceases the rest of it will probably diminish as well.
 
Be careful first poster. You can find your posts by putting your name in a Google search. Employers may too.
 
If you are semi-conscious, then it couldn’t be a mortal sin. You may be triggering some kind of subconscious (suppressed?) thought process during your waking hours that is then taking over in your sleep. Something to bring up to your spiritual director.
 
There may be some limited culpability, to the extent of a venial sin (since the act is not fully deliberate), if the act is a result of impure desire.
 
occasionally i will wake up during the night and be surprised to find that i am touching myself impurely, i obviously did not intend for this to happen but i feel that i was semi-conscious while it was happening and of course i feel guilty of committing mortal sin. now i do not masturbate or anything like that, its simply i will wake up with my hands places they shouldn’t be and other things like (embarrassingly) i will have taken off my underwear.
anyway, any thoughts would be awesome
I think that you should relax on this. You may be describing the wholesome activity of a grace-filled human animal and describing it as subconscious sin.
 
There may be some limited culpability, to the extent of a venial sin (since the act is not fully deliberate), if the act is a result of impure desire.
Which brings to my mind how wonderful the place/state of Purgatory is. How many sins have we forgotten to confess, or don’t realize we should confess will be washed clean before our entry into heaven… I just know that nothing unclean enters heaven… How many unconfessed sins, habits of mind might we have at the end of our life, even those of us who love God and want to please Him? While my salvation has already been “purchased” on the cross of Christ, I’m grateful that there is a time when all of those habits of sin will be completely and permanently eradicated prior to (my) eternal life with Christ in Heaven. Thanks be to God.
 
I googled my name and saw a post or so from here, I believe. My last name isn’t a popular one, though.

Does sleep deprivation (like 5 hour sleeps) or a subconscious sadness that may trigger it and/or maintain it affect your judgment, even if y ou feel you consciously make a decision?
 
But you are not now so that shouldn’t be a problem, correct?
 
Employers have been know to look people up on the web to see what they are “into” and dismiss them for actions which they did not approve of but you are not using your real name any longer so that should not be a concern unless you are worried about them tracking you via IP address or you are using a work computer/connection to go on the web.
 
Yeah, I guess you’re right. Hey, we got off topic and no one’s complaining. We need to spice the thread up some more!
 
If you lust for a woman just by thinking lustfully about her then you have committed adultery in your heart, is this not what Jesus said?

Even if you did not intend to do it you still lusted after her, just like now you may not have intended to do it but you are regardless, you are sinning, you need to deal with it.

You cannot sift the blame by saying I was asleep, I was not entirely conscious. You have to take responsibility for what you and your mind do and repent.
 
If you are identified as scrupulous by a confessor, anxieties may be at play. I may get excited and physically aroused by filming a squirrel, but I am not attracted to squirrels (like this guy in this show who gets like that if embraced for any reason by anyone he may not be attracted to for 5 seconds). If the same thing happens if I saw a naked woman, would I be sexually aroused or just accidentally aroused? You might hoard things, due to an obsessive compulsiveness and wonder if you’re just greedy.

If you stay away from Holy Communion because of these concerns, it could be justified or it could be that you need Jesus. You can never tell. It’s said you should forgive yourself if God forgives you, but do you ever feel, if scrupulous, that you made a good confession? Not often, especially if you have any bad habits. Did you have a good enough resolve not to sin again? You never feel you were forgiven and so you’re still stuck not forgiving yourself and you can fall into a despair of not ever going to get better, thus resulting in bad habits starting or continuing. You don’t feel you’ll ever get it right, so you just try to keep living, if you have any hope of salvation left, with sanitizer bottles, but, at the same time, you can engage in self-destructive habits. It’s like two forces fighting each other in you and you wonder if your self-destructive habits (like sleep debt) is really damnable slow suicide.

God may not seem to you be your judge (while alive) or out to get you, but you have probably screwed up too many times and God is letting you damn yourself (as His mercy is infinite, but acts of it are finite) and you feel you will not be receptive enough to salvific grace before your dying breath.

It’s hard to know what you know about The Faith and not know what God wants of you, especially if you don’t really know any priests (the ones you’ve met seem too technical or too liberal) people you meet don’t really know people you need to know, and you don’t know any loved ones who are the type that watches EWTN or go to a Latin Mass. I don’t have enough faith in God or myself (I’ve always been a worrier) to start an apostolate, so it’s pretty much fear (but not the fear and trembling kind) and loathing (switching between myself and certain others, sometimes complaining here and then wondering if I backbited) in KC. On top of that, some anti-scrupulosity types will say not having joy in your heart is a sin. Great! Of what severity is it?

I’m hoping Madonna House will be helpful, but the daily Mass part is going to be rough on one who can’t decide if he should go to Holy Communion.
 
ok ok, thank you for the many post and many helps…
but… i still have some questions about this because it keeps coming up…
here’s the deal…(this is very explicit)
i will (like i said before) wake up (although not really wake up because my eyes are still closed and i dont get out of bed)…so i will say i become aware that my pajamas have been pulled down exposing myself. and for some convoluted reason i think i have to masturbate to solve some problem in my dream… like if you masturbate youll get out of some problem…so the reason for masturbating is not sexual…its just kinda weird…but so thats what happens.
ok…so the act itself, masturbation, is grave matter which leads to mortal sin
the intention, i do not believe the intention can justify a mortal sin because it wasnt done out of lust but out of some weird dream like thing
and the will, i am not sure that i have full consent of the will because i am half awake (with eyes closed and really only cognizant of the action that is going on and not so much my surroundings) and during the day when i am fully awake i try as hard as i can to stay away from this behavior and do not want to do this with all my heart
so its weird, and somewhat i dont think its fair, because ill go to sleep proud that i did not masturbate only to find in the morning i have

so, did i sin mortally??

i want to end this practice, and it seems like the devil is just finding new ways for it to continue and this one seems so much out of my control
 
Nocturnal emissions from a sexual part of a dream doesn’t count against you. Some Sexual thoughts right upon waking may not (how long they’re entertained at that point, I don’t know), but it’s basically not supposed to be.

Sorry ladies: this isn’t lockerroom talk, but guy issues nonetheless:

I think the Catechism covers intentions for stimulating yourself, such as freaking out about something (maybe you got charged up in a semi-wakeful period and fear your genitalia will fall apart if you stop it–or something) or just moving it around as a thing that’s dangly, like you see kids do sometimes in those Travel Channel-type documentaries with ethnographic nudity (not something easily done after you put on shorts or pants). You definitely can’t do it for arousal purposes and you can’t intend to reach the natural result of doing the action long enough.

I’m scrupulous, but it may wear you out and, in depression, lead you to give into inclinations out of despair. The scrupulous fear they’ll probably go to Hell anyway for a bad confession, so maybe we should just be easier on ourselves in doubtful areas and, having avoided intentional sins of depression (Luther gave in, and then some, in that way, i think), we may be in the right mindset for receiving what graces may be necessary for salvation.
 
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