Subdeacons: Latin rite, Eastern Catholic and Orthodox

[Brendan]

So, I wanted to know:

If an Eastern Orthodox subdeacon converts to the Latin Rite (skipping over Eastern Rite), could the bishop allow him to be an instituted acolyte?

John

Our (latin) parish has a Chaldean Sub Deacon. He functions as an instituted acolyte at Mass, but wears the alb and stole of his ordination while doing so.

 

[rome1453]

The subdeacon vests as an eastern subdeacon in a latin rite parish? That seems a bit off… to me…

So I take it that your bishop was ok with his status?

John

 

[ConstantineTG]

The FSSP and SSPX continue to do so in violation of the council instructions to the contrary.

They were officially abolished by the Second Vatican Council within the Roman church; there are instructions that preextant subdeacons and eastern subdeacons serve as acolytes and lectors when functioning in a Roman parish. (Which said, the Lector and Acolyte minor orders still exist in the Roman Church… almost exclusively as transitional orders toward the deaconate.)

Further, the instructions of the indult permit instituted acolytes to serve as the subdeacon for EF liturgies.

My guess is the FSSP receives some kind of indult to continue using the minor orders since they are using the Tridentine Mass.

 

[ciero]

The subdeacon vests as an eastern subdeacon in a latin rite parish? That seems a bit off… to me…

So I take it that your bishop was ok with his status?

John

One always vests in the vestments of the church he was ordained to while celebrating within another Rite, unless one has bi-ritual faculties, and being bi-ritual faculties are not given to sub-deacons…

 

[ConstantineTG]

Can I become a subdeacon after my canonical transfer? Would only those seeking to become Deacons and Priests seek to become Subdeacons?

 

[rome1453]

Constantine:

Are you going west or east?

 

[ciero]

Constantine:

Are you going west or east?

Constantine is coming East . Ask Bishop Ken, he might just ordain you.

 

[Hadrianus]

The subdiaconate is an order above that of acolyte. In the event that an Eastern subdeacon joined the Latin rite he would then progress to the diaconate in due course.
He could of course act as a liturgical subdeacon in EF masses. In the OF since 1972 there is no liturgical role for a subdeacon, but in practice he would do what a acolyte does.

 

[rome1453]

And that would apply if the eastern subdeacon was orthodox?

 

[ciero]

The subdiaconate is an order above that of acolyte. In the event that an Eastern subdeacon joined the Latin rite he would then progress to the diaconate in due course.
He could of course act as a liturgical subdeacon in EF masses. In the OF since 1972 there is no liturgical role for a subdeacon, but in practice he would do what a acolyte does.

There is nothing to compel a sub-deacon to progress to the order of deacon. One can stay a sub-deacon unto the ages of ages if one so chooses, just as there is nothing to compel a deacon to become a priest or a priest to become a bishop.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Constantine is coming East . Ask Bishop Ken, he might just ordain you.

Heheheh, not what I have in mind the next time we get to chit chat. I do ask a lot of stuff from him, but I don’t think this would be one of those. I still have to discern if I’m canonically changing to the Ukrainian Church.

 

[Aramis]

The subdeacon vests as an eastern subdeacon in a latin rite parish? That seems a bit off… to me…

So I take it that your bishop was ok with his status?

John

A Byzantine-Rite Catholic joined the Order of Preachers. Due to oversights, it wasn’t realized until after final vows he was Canonically Byzantine. He was ordained by a Byzantine Bishop, rather than a Roman, as a deacon, and served in Latin parishes vested as a byzantine, albeit with the most absolutely plain dalmatics possible, with his orarion over it, as is byzantine tradition.

Clerics (including minor clerics) are permitted to serve across rites, but are not permitted to change rites. Tho’, in changing incardination, one would be able to ask the receiving bishop for indult to use the rite of the diocese for the hours, etc.

 

[collin_nunis]

Thanks to all posters. I think I should rephrase my original enquiry.
Should a Catholic returning to the Church from a sojourn in Orthodoxy as a subdeacon be regarded still as a subdeacon, or as a layman?
He has no intention of foisting himself onto the Latin church as something which no longer exists.
It might help if I quote this person’s conversation with an Orthodox priest: “you will be judged as a subdeacon”

Hi, it depends solely on these 2 things - which Orthodox jurisdiction were you from, and whether you had a “statikon” from your previous Orthodox hierarch. Everything after that will be secondary.