Substituting smudging for penitential rite at Mass

[FAB]

Yes. This is the reason I asked for, and we should consider the circumstances. It may be appropriate in Canada, once a year, and inappropriate in Chicago or LA often.

The confusion of the faithful could be eliminated and should be eliminated by appropriate catechesis.

I formed my opinion searching tor the topic, and finding that it is done in Maine as yearly ecumenical celebration, and allegedly the Jesuits are rejecting claiming that this is the desecration of their martyrs. If this is true then we need such ecumenical services once a year, to show that we are Christians, and we believe that we will be forgiven only if we learn to forgive.

The idea of ecumenicalism is to find common ground in each belief so the betterment and respect for human life can be advanced. I can see how the Jesuits might have issues considering the horrible torture their martyrs suffered. Yes we can forgive, the idea of such forgiveness is also to lead to the truth of Christ.

 

[benedictgal]

Yes. This is the reason I asked for, and we should consider the circumstances. It may be appropriate in Canada, once a year, and inappropriate in Chicago or LA often.

The confusion of the faithful could be eliminated and should be eliminated by appropriate catechesis.

I formed my opinion searching tor the topic, and finding that it is done in Maine as yearly ecumenical celebration, and allegedly the Jesuits are rejecting claiming that this is the desecration of their martyrs. If this is true then we need such ecumenical services once a year, to show that we are Christians, and we believe that we will be forgiven only if we learn to forgive.

However, what the OP reported was not done within the context of an ecumenical service; it was done within the Mass in place of what was supposed to have happened: the Penitential Rite.

 

[Tepeyac]

Has the OP inquired why this was done at the church he attended? Was this on Ash Wednseday?

 

[veilofveronica]

It depends. They likely got special permission from the Bishop to do so. I would check with your Diocesan office if you are concerned.

 

[FAB]

It depends. They likely got special permission from the Bishop to do so. I would check with your Diocesan office if you are concerned.

Very unlikely that the bishop would have given permission. This type of substution is specifically prohibited by the GIRM.

 

[laszlo]

However, what the OP reported was not done within the context of an ecumenical service; it was done within the Mass in place of what was supposed to have happened: the Penitential Rite.

The original poster did not excluded the ecumenical service, which can be Mass.

1. Christians may be encouraged to share in spiritual activities and resources, i.e., to share that spiritual heritage they have in common in a manner and to a degree appropriate to their present divided state.113

adoremus.org/EcumenismNorms.html

If you read the full text it allows certain sharing in the Eucharist and other sacraments too.

I believe the proper dividing line is the Mass of Eucharist (starting with the offertory), the parts before that open for everyone so shareable.

For us Jesus Christ is the center, not the rites. He wanted his religion for everyone.

 

[FAB]

The original poster did not excluded the ecumenical service, which can be Mass.

1. Christians may be encouraged to share in spiritual activities and resources, i.e., to share that spiritual heritage they have in common in a manner and to a degree appropriate to their present divided state.113

adoremus.org/EcumenismNorms.html

If you read the full text it allows certain sharing in the Eucharist and other sacraments too.

I believe the proper dividing line is the Mass of Eucharist (starting with the offertory), the parts before that open for everyone so shareable.

For us Jesus Christ is the center, not the rites. He wanted his religion for everyone.

A mass is not considered an ecumenical service. There are two main parts to the mass, the Liturgy of the Word is the first half, and the GIRM prohibits any substitutions that are not part of the Missal.
One has to be careful with the idea of sharing Spiritual activities, that wouldn’t include say sharing a Wiken ceremony. I think also the norms envisioned sharing with other established religious faiths, I don’t think a medicine man of an indian tribe necessarily falls into that category.
A reminder that the rites are from the church that Christ established, the rites then come from the Holy Spirit. Jesus does want us to spread His word and as as Catholics the fullness of the word is in His Church.

 

[odile53]

I don’t think you can substitute smudging for a penitential rite at Mass, but I have heard of sage or sweetgrass being used in lieu of incense at the church on the reservation where I was born. Nothing else like an eagle feather is used. They just put these botanicals in the censer and use it as incense.

Also, various Native nations have their own traditional religions, as well as their own traditional culture. Iroquois are very different from Lakota are very different from Navajo, much the same as the people of various European nations differ. Many (but not all) of the traditional religions are monotheistic, not polytheistic, and things such as sage, a pipe, an eagle feather, etc are considered to be holy only in the same sense that we would consider a sacramental holy–e.g., they are used as aids to prayer, they are not worshipped in themselves.

It’s also noteworthy that there are many Native American Catholics of all Native nations, and many can trace their Catholicism back through their family lineage to first contact with the white man.

It’s very interesting to me that last Wednesday, I went to the Stations of the Cross at an oratory in my town, and noticed, instead of the usual odor of incense, the distinctive odor of sage and cedar permeating the church. This was not on the reservation, and there is not a particularly large Native population around here.

 

[clarkent]

I apologize that I have been out of town and haven’t been able to answer questions about where, when, and how this occurred. Also, I must correct a previous post in which I stated that Pope Benedict had participated in a smudging ceremony. It was Pope John Paul II, I believe during his visit to the U.S. in 1987. The smudging ceremony that I am asking about took place during the Sunday Mass at a retreat I attended. This retreat is required as part of the Lay Ministry formation program for our diocese. The program is run by the Jesuits, and the retreat took place at the spiritual center, where they run a ministry to Native Americans. Two Native Americans participated in the retreat, out of 25 participants. I wouldn’t be surprised if our bishop knows and probably even approves of the smudging in place of the penitential rite during Masses there. I found the following article in the Catholic Answers archives and wonder if the second question in Section II perhaps explains that this would be licit? catholic.com/library/liturgical_abuses.asp The question is “May the bishop regulate the liturgy any way he wants?”

 

[benedictgal]

I apologize that I have been out of town and haven’t been able to answer questions about where, when, and how this occurred. Also, I must correct a previous post in which I stated that Pope Benedict had participated in a smudging ceremony. It was Pope John Paul II, I believe during his visit to the U.S. in 1987. The smudging ceremony that I am asking about took place during the Sunday Mass at a retreat I attended. This retreat is required as part of the Lay Ministry formation program for our diocese. The program is run by the Jesuits, and the retreat took place at the spiritual center, where they run a ministry to Native Americans. Two Native Americans participated in the retreat, out of 25 participants. I wouldn’t be surprised if our bishop knows and probably even approves of the smudging in place of the penitential rite during Masses there. I found the following article in the Catholic Answers archives and wonder if the second question in Section II perhaps explains that this would be licit? catholic.com/library/liturgical_abuses.asp The question is “May the bishop regulate the liturgy any way he wants?”

According to the GIRM, this is what the bishop can do:

1. The Diocesan Bishop, who is to be regarded as the high priest of his flock, and from whom the life in Christ of the faithful under his care in a certain sense derives and upon whom it depends,148 must promote, regulate, and be vigilant over the liturgical life in his diocese. It is to him that in this Instruction is entrusted the regulating of the discipline of concelebration (cf. above, nos. 202, 374) and the establishing of norms regarding the function of serving the priest at the altar (cf. above, no. 107), the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds (cf. above, no. 283), and the construction and ordering of churches (cf. above, no. 291). With him lies responsibility above all for fostering the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the priests, deacons, and faithful.

Thus, I believe that it would be beyond the scope of what he can do to add rituals to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[FAB]

According to the GIRM, this is what the bishop can do:

Thus, I believe that it would be beyond the scope of what he can do to add rituals to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Although at time I have been in disagreement with benedictgal, on this one I am in full agreement. If the bishop had approved the use of smugging as a substitution in the mass, he would be deralick in his position. Some how I don’t think thats the case.

 

[COLOS]

I attended a Mass recently in which the penitential rite was replaced by a Native American smudging ceremony. I understand that smudging is a purifying ceremony, but is it legitimate to substitute this for a part of the Mass?

Maybe it’s just me, but I think that this is insane. A “smudging” ceremony? For Catholics?

Insanity.

A non-Catholic purification ceremony used for Roman Catholics at Mass?

 

[Tepeyac]

I wouldn’t be surprised if our bishop knows and probably even approves of the smudging in place of the penitential rite during Masses there.

I don’t think you should assume this. No matter what you think about your bishop, It’s very possible he wouldn’t approve, and it’s very possible he’s not even aware. Or it’s even possible he was misled, and if that’s the case even then it’s very possible it was unintentional or out of ignorance.

So I think if you feel strongly about it then write a nice, calm letter to your bishoip about it. Even if nothing comes about it you know you did what you could do. You could then leave the rest to the Lord and to prayer.*

*personally, I think people don’t give enough thought and effort to prayer, when it comes to dealing with liturgy issues.