Substitutionary atonement

[teachccd]

Where can I find information regarding substitutionary atonement? This is the belief that Christ took our place on the Cross for our salvation. Do we adhere to this belief? I am in dialogue with a Protestant so any documentation would be helpful. Thanks to all and God Bless…teachccd

 

[NotWorthy]

From the CC:
[1367](javascript:OpenPopupWindow() The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner . . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."190You’ll alse see this in Paul’s writing that Christ “took on sin, so that we can become freed from sin”.

 

[NotWorthy]

Galatians, chapter 1:
…the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins that he might rescue us from the present evil age in accord with the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Question: “What are the various theories on the atonement?”

Ransom to Satan:
Recapitulation Theory:
Dramatic Theory:
Mystical Theory:
Example Theory:
Moral Influence Theory:
Commercial Theory:
Governmental Theory:
Penal Substitution Theory:

Recommended Resource: The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns.

gotquestions.org/atonement-theories.html

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

Moved from Sacred Scriptures to the Apologetics forum.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary

 

[teachccd]

Thank you to those who responded. Are there any more ideas??

 

[Ghosty]

Christ is not our substitute per se, at least not in a penal sense (the sense that Protestants who speak of substitutionary atonement generally mean).

Rather He is united to us, and us to Him, in His Sacrifice. We still take part and participate, through mortification and ultimately our own deaths; the difference is that Baptism unites us to Christ in such a way that our lives mean more than “simply human” life.

So His atonement surpasses ours, and substitutes the Divine for our human sacrifices. This is different from the penal substitutionary atonement, where the punishment of sin literally falls squarely on Christ instead of us.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Nick]

Does penal substitutionary atonement mean that:

He offered forgiveness in the hope that we would repent
out of gratitude for His payment of the debt which our sins created

.

He certainly did not teach us to
be indifferent to sin, because He took its full consequences upon
Himself.

THESE ARE THE SACRAMENTS
as described by Fulton J. SHEEN

Does penal substitutionary atonement perhaps mean something different than this, because if it doesn’t it seems to be perfectly compatible with Catholic theology to me. If PSA does mean something different than this, than what does it mean and how is not compatible with Catholic teaching.

 

[OneForTruth]

Our pardon came about only because one was willing to take our punishment in our place. We read…

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Colossians 2:13-14 KJV 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV 21 For **he hath made him to be sin **for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is one of the most convincing and important passages of Romans…

Romans 3:24-26 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Who is a God that simply brushes sin under the carpet and lets those who will go free go free?? God showed His righteousness - justice in laying the penalty (the wages of sin is death) squarely on the Savior of the world…Jesus Christ. So, instead of simply “passing over sins”…(which all other religions teach - forgiveness happens while justice is overturned) - God vindicates Himself or “shows Himself righteous” by putting forth His Son to go in our place and take our penalty for us.

Now - He freely can “justify the ungodly” (Romans 4:5) - those who fall on the chief cornerstone with a broken heart - repentant over their sin…looking to Christ as their Lord and Savior…trusting in His very sacrifice as the full payment for their sin and being declared righteous - justified by faith (Romans 5:1) and changed miraculously forever. Praise God for loving us so much!!

Isaiah 53:10-11 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

Galatians 3:13 NAS95 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE” –

1 Peter 3:18 NAS95 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Romans 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

 

[Nick]

I am sorry OneForTruth, I don’t know if you were responding to me or to the OP, but I was specifically looking for a Catholic response to this question.

 

[NotWorthy]

I am sorry OneForTruth, I don’t know if you were responding to me or to the OP, but I was specifically looking for a Catholic response to this question.

I don’t think OneforTruth’s response was “non-catholic”, so to speak. Unless I mis-read it, he seemed to cover it quite well.

 

[OneForTruth]

I am sorry OneForTruth, I don’t know if you were responding to me or to the OP, but I was specifically looking for a Catholic response to this question.

The OP…it was just my (name removed by moderator)ut. But you are welcome to read what I wrote and to respond if you wish.

May God Show Us The Way!!

 

[Curious]

[QUOTESo His atonement surpasses ours, and substitutes the Divine for our human sacrifices. This is different from the penal substitutionary atonement, where the punishment of sin literally falls squarely on Christ instead of us.
]

So, that is not the Catholic belief - that there had to be a debt paid and Christ paid it in our stead??

 

[OneForTruth]

[QUOTESo His atonement surpasses ours, and substitutes the Divine for our human sacrifices. This is different from the penal substitutionary atonement, where the punishment of sin literally falls squarely on Christ instead of us.
]

So, that is not the Catholic belief - that there had to be a debt paid and Christ paid it in our stead??

Read my post - I think it is clear. God is just and must punish sin - therefore, for sinners to go free, there must be a just punishment…so Christ took it.

Romans 3:24-26 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[thomasf]

substitutionary atonement means when Jesus died on the cross He died for all the sins that you or I or anyone else that believes in Him has committed. So that we won’t be punished, Jesus took the punishment.

That is not what catholics believe. Jesus’ death on the cross was atonement for original sin, the sin of Adam. God created Adam and Eve perfect, without sin, in His image. Man was originally meant to dwell with God in perfection. But man sinned and brought death, suffering, and punishment to himself. Since then, until Jesus, God required sacrifice and atonement for this original sin. But none of that sacrifice or atonement was great enough to pay the price man owed God for original sin. Such a price had to be paid by diety. So God became man in Jesus, and died on the cross as a sacrifice, as atonement, and paid that debt that man owed to God for bringing sin and death to the world. This allowed man to once again dwell with God in Heaven, in His perfection. Until then, souls did not go to heaven after death. Because God loves us so, He sent His only Son to die and pay our price. In order to take part in that, man has to take part in baptism to wash away his original sin.

Jesus’ death on the cross opened the gates of Heaven for man and allowed man to once again dwell in God’s perfection, as we were originally meant to do. And He gave us the promise of resurrection after death and life everlasting.

That does not mean Jesus paid the price for every single sin we as humans committ through life. That is what confession and penance and purgatory is for. We live in the material world, we are tempted by satan and we as imperfect, wicked humans sin every day. But Jesus left us the one, true, catholic church. The sacraments of communion and reconcilliation, and His body on earth to gain God’s grace through faith and to work towards a more perfect, grace filled life. God forgives us for our sins we committ after baptism, but we have to repent and confess our sins and ask for forgiveness.

Substitutionary atonement is a protestant idea, that every sin we committ was wiped away on the cross. It’s a much ‘easier’ way of living and believing, it certainly lets people off the hook. But it’s not catholic.

 

[Curious]

Read my post - I think it is clear. God is just and must punish sin - therefore, for sinners to go free, there must be a just punishment…so Christ took it.

I did read your post and it was very nice and clear. However, I was not sure if it was the Catholic position on substitutionary atonement, because your profile says you’re Protestant. It was a good post, though.

substitutionary atonement means when Jesus died on the cross He died for all the sins that you or I or anyone else that believes in Him has committed. So that we won’t be punished, Jesus took the punishment.

That is not what catholics believe. Jesus’ death on the cross was atonement for original sin, the sin of Adam. God created Adam and Eve perfect, without sin, in His image. Man was originally meant to dwell with God in perfection. But man sinned and brought death, suffering, and punishment to himself. Since then, until Jesus, God required sacrifice and atonement for this original sin. But none of that sacrifice or atonement was great enough to pay the price man owed God for original sin. Such a price had to be paid by diety. So God became man in Jesus, and died on the cross as a sacrifice, as atonement, and paid that debt that man owed to God for bringing sin and death to the world. This allowed man to once again dwell with God in Heaven, in His perfection. Until then, souls did not go to heaven after death. Because God loves us so, He sent His only Son to die and pay our price. In order to take part in that, man has to take part in baptism to wash away his original sin.

Jesus’ death on the cross opened the gates of Heaven for man and allowed man to once again dwell in God’s perfection, as we were originally meant to do. And He gave us the promise of resurrection after death and life everlasting.

That does not mean Jesus paid the price for every single sin we as humans committ through life. That is what confession and penance and purgatory is for. We live in the material world, we are tempted by satan and we as imperfect, wicked humans sin every day. But Jesus left us the one, true, catholic church. The sacraments of communion and reconcilliation, and His body on earth to gain God’s grace through faith and to work towards a more perfect, grace filled life. God forgives us for our sins we committ after baptism, but we have to repent and confess our sins and ask for forgiveness.

Substitutionary atonement is a protestant idea, that every sin we committ was wiped away on the cross. It’s a much ‘easier’ way of living and believing, it certainly lets people off the hook. But it’s not catholic

This is also an excellent post and gives the Catholic position. Thank you.

 

[OneForTruth]

I did read your post and it was very nice and clear. However, I was not sure if it was the Catholic position on substitutionary atonement, because your profile says you’re Protestant. It was a good post, though.

This is also an excellent post and gives the Catholic position. Thank you.

It is a shame it is not biblical.

 

[Nick]

Curious

I think this link will help you understand the Catholic position on atonement a little better.

click here

 

[teachccd]

Curious, this one was for you… Funny how some Protestants see so much as unbiblical when the number of books to be included in the New Testament is not found in the Bible nor is the word Bible found in the Bible or the word incarnation, or Trinity or the sinners prayer or Sola Scriptura or the name of the first Gospel or the rapture or how the Bible is inspired or …O.K. I’ll stop…

 

[Curious]

I know it was for me, Teach. I was going to remark that the Protestant you are in dialogue with must be a big dork! Just for kicks.

OOT = out of town. Sorry about the confusion. I should be getting straightened out tonight. At least partially. If not tonight, tomorrow. I know you told me to take my time, but I’m eager to resume!!