Subverting the Modern "Sympathetic" Vampire in Media

[Verchiel]

I can never understand how having fangs and night-based superpowers supposedly makes you ‘evil.’ The worst you can say is that the thirst for blood is intrinsically disordered. And yeah, you can say vampires can suffer from a few more psychological abnormalities.

But really, that is not sufficient proof for a verdict. Are they dangerous? Yep. Are they scary? Oh yeah.

Yet it’s not like humanity itself isn’t a race of monsters. We’ve killed in the name of some reclusive God. We’ve enslaved our own children for the sexual pleasures of men several times their age. Millions more were starved in the name of ‘equality’ and eliminating the ‘bourgeoisie.’

Reminds me of Malthael from Diablo III and I don’t even play that game. It’s just that, with all due respect, it amuses me when some higher being claims to see a particular race or breed as inherently corrupt. And therefore, the time comes to annihilate this so-called infernal race.

That’s like saying you’re evil because you can conjure fire with the wave of a wand and fly on broomsticks.

P.S.

Believe it or not but I actually don’t like vampires all that much, in spite of my defense above. My sister does though. And in a fictional setting, I’d sooner be in the company of a vampire like her than boneheaded paladins who eat, drink, and wear their religion on their sleeve.

And that is the out look these movie producers an book authors would have you believe, that Vampyres are really just like humans with a few side effects. They can love have relationships and families just like humans yet live an immortal life, this makes being a Vampyre look appealing, while the opposite is true. They are not human, they are an abomination with out a soul and they are bound for perdition once killed, and so people hoping to be as a Vampyre wish for immortality as a gift from the devil and not from God. Its a subtle pull on one conscious to sway them to seek the attributes of evil for a pay off.

 

[AMFV]

And that is the out look these movie producers an book authors would have you believe, that Vampyres are really just like humans with a few side effects. They can love have relationships and families just like humans yet live an immortal life, this makes being a Vampyre look appealing, while the opposite is true. They are not human, they are an abomination with out a soul and they are bound for perdition once killed, and so people hoping to be as a Vampyre wish for immortality as a gift from the devil and not from God. Its a subtle pull on one conscious to sway them to seek the attributes of evil for a pay off.

You realize that we’re discussing depictions in literature over any real vampire things right? So far as I know there are no real vampires. Furthermore without a soul you can’t be bound for perdition, you simply cease to exist, the same way as a block of wood that gets burned ceases to be a bock of wood.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

They are not human

Pretty sure the same belief once persisted regarding anyone who wasn’t a white man.

 

[xNoOnex]

What’s so wrong why a sympathetic portrayal of any villain?

It makes them more believable. A lot of awful things in history have been done by otherwise good men who had reasons for doing what they were doing and lives outside of their actions, with friends, lovers, and families that might have saw them in a different light.

Maybe a vampire still has some recollection of his life and former morality, but is cursed with a hunger for blood. Maybe he even does some pretty awful things in this hunger - like drug addicts often do in order to get their fix. That doesn’t mean they can’t be redeemed or they can’t make an active attempt to deny their own dark nature - just as Catholics are supposed to deny their own sinful nature.

And werewolfs? Why do they have to rabid killers? The myth originated at a time when we humans didn’t really have much of an understanding of wolves, as creatures. Why not not update them to fit a modern understanding? Have them be very communal, even monogamous by nature.

 

[Joe_5859]

What’s so wrong why a sympathetic portrayal of any villain?

It makes them more believable. A lot of awful things in history have been done by otherwise good men who had reasons for doing what they were doing and lives outside of their actions, with friends, lovers, and families that might have saw them in a different light.

Maybe a vampire still has some recollection of his life and former morality, but is cursed with a hunger for blood. Maybe he even does some pretty awful things in this hunger - like drug addicts often do in order to get their fix. That doesn’t mean they can’t be redeemed or they can’t make an active attempt to deny their own dark nature - just as Catholics are supposed to deny their own sinful nature.

And werewolfs? Why do they have to rabid killers? The myth originated at a time when we humans didn’t really have much of an understanding of wolves, as creatures. Why not not update them to fit a modern understanding? Have them be very communal, even monogamous by nature.

I think that’s a good question. On the one hand, I understand Christians being a bit perturbed by the currently pervasive trend of the noble monster. In ages past, there were more clearly defined lines between good and evil and now those lines tend to be blurred.

But at the same time, those lines are blurred in us, and so it is more believable provided the redeemable villains are meant to be related to. When it comes to non-human entities, that is when I think it becomes potentially problematic. This side of death, we humans always have the opportunity to repent and be redeemed. But for the fallen angels, they have already made their choice and it cannot be undone.

So I suppose it comes down to whether the vampires are being portrayed as humans for whom their is still chance for redemption or demons for whom that choice has already been made.

 

[Peter_J]

He just saved the world. Vampire with a soul fighting for the good of humanity. Ring anything? He’s just like you, a champion.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think that’s a good question. On the one hand, I understand Christians being a bit perturbed by the currently pervasive trend of the noble monster. In ages past, there were more clearly defined lines between good and evil and now those lines tend to be blurred.

What defines a monster? Is it the fact that they can fly? That they can find you in the dark? Is it because they breath fire and have the strength to break down walls? Is it because they can’t be killed or are impervious to injury? Is it because they can go through walls or live under the sea?

Joe, I think you and I have read enough about the X-Men to say fantastical abilities are not marks of evil. The aesthetics associated with monsters have never been near any level of religious doctrine. It’s really just pure bias.

 

[Joe_5859]

What defines a monster? Is it the fact that they can fly? That they can find you in the dark? Is it because they breath fire and have the strength to break down walls? Is it because they can’t be killed or are impervious to injury? Is it because they can go through walls or live under the sea?

Joe, I think you and I have read enough about the X-Men to say fantastical abilities are not marks of evil. The aesthetics associated with monsters have never been near any level of religious doctrine. It’s really just pure bias.

I don’t disagree with you. In the context of my post, I would define “monster” as a big scary creature with no immortal soul, or else a creature that is already damned. If that’s a person’s definition of “monster”, then I can see why they would think of “loveable monsters” as being comparable to having a “lovable devil” character.

I tend to think that most people don’t define “monster” in that way anymore (if they ever did). You bring up X-Men, which is a good example. You have some characters like Beast who definitely look scary and monster-like, but are still human and even “good guys.” I have no problem with that. I don’t know what Michael O’Brien would think, though. I know he has a problem with “good” dragons.

I think people like O’Brien tend to take things too far, but I suppose I do somewhat see their point. You have these archetypal “evil” things like dragons and vampires and monsters, and the present culture seems to want to turn them all into loveable, fluffy, Tickle-Me Elmos. I wouldn’t go as far as O’Brien in saying such things are a travesty of modern literature. But it does seem like there is something going on in our culture whereby we have this general trend towards making these characters sympathetic. I’m sure there’s a doctoral dissertation in there waiting to be written, if I only had the time and the desire.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I wouldn’t go as far as O’Brien in saying such things are a travesty of modern literature. But it does seem like there is something going on in our culture whereby we have this general trend towards making these characters sympathetic. I’m sure there’s a doctoral dissertation in there waiting to be written, if I only had the time and the desire.

Well if you ever get to write, do put my question at the forefront. Because really, I shudder at the thought of O’Brien becoming a more prominent voice in the Catholic literary community. His reasoning against the break from traditional archetypes sounds like a sugar-coated version of William Stryker’s pastoral rants.

I really, really can’t see why having extraordinary abilities is somehow an offense to God and all that is good. It’s like the people who do believe that being normal, dull, and miracle-dependent is the ideal character that Catholic readers/writers need to model after.

With all due respect to Tolkien, I’m not sure I like to champion ‘normal’ as a virtue. From a historical standpoint, plenty of the Catholic religion isn’t normal by the standards of non-believers.

 

[Sarcelle]

Well if you ever get to write, do put my question at the forefront. Because really, I shudder at the thought of O’Brien becoming a more prominent voice in the Catholic literary community. His reasoning against the break from traditional archetypes sounds like a sugar-coated version of William Stryker’s pastoral rants.

I really, really can’t see why having extraordinary abilities is somehow an offense to God and all that is good. It’s like the people who do believe that being normal, dull, and miracle-dependent is the ideal character that Catholic readers/writers need to model after.

With all due respect to Tolkien, I’m not sure I like to champion ‘normal’ as a virtue. From a historical standpoint, plenty of the Catholic religion isn’t normal by the standards of non-believers.

In general I agree with you about why extraordinary abilities should not be an offense to God, especially if God is the source.of said ability.

With regards to Tolkien, I don’t think Tolkien is putting forth normal.or even average as a virtue. In fact he is saying that extraordinary things or extraordinary abilities lie.even within the most average and normal.among us and it takes extraordinary events to bring forth these extraordinary abilities.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

With regards to Tolkien, I don’t think Tolkien is putting forth normal.or even average as a virtue. In fact he is saying that extraordinary things or extraordinary abilities lie.even within the most average and normal.among us and it takes extraordinary events to bring forth these extraordinary abilities.

I suppose you’re right. It’s just that this message seems lost on the witch-hunting crowd. They’re always, “See! Frodo beat Sauron! He dun need no magic ring! He dun need no magic at all! Nuh uh! Superpowers are of teh deeebil and take things belonging to Gawd!”

 

[Peter_J]

When it comes to O’Brien, there’s no question that as a writer he has a lot of talent … which, of course, should not be confused for, well, anything other than talent.

 

[Sarcelle]

I suppose you’re right. It’s just that this message seems lost on the witch-hunting crowd. They’re always, “See! Frodo beat Sauron! He dun need no magic ring! He dun need no magic at all! Nuh uh! Superpowers are of teh deeebil and take things belonging to Gawd!”

Yes, you’re guaranteed to get this witchcraft is of the devil response especially when you mention Harry Potter.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes, you’re guaranteed to get this response especially when you mention Harry Potter.

It’s like these people don’t realize they channel lightning into their homes and employ the use of highly processed oils and earth shaped into tools. By their logic, we’ve intruded into God’s territory the day we invented the first wheel and sparked the first fire. It’s like the Promethean narrative all over again!

 

[Sarcelle]

It’s like these people don’t realize they channel lightning into their homes and employ the use of highly processed oils and earth shaped into tools. By their logic, we’ve intruded into God’s territory the day we invented the first wheel and sparked the first fire.

As they say sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I suppose you’re right. It’s just that this message seems lost on the witch-hunting crowd. They’re always, “See! Frodo beat Sauron! He dun need no magic ring! He dun need no magic at all! Nuh uh! Superpowers are of teh deeebil and take things belonging to Gawd!”

snort

 

[Joe_5859]

Well if you ever get to write, do put my question at the forefront. Because really, I shudder at the thought of O’Brien becoming a more prominent voice in the Catholic literary community. His reasoning against the break from traditional archetypes sounds like a sugar-coated version of William Stryker’s pastoral rants.

I really, really can’t see why having extraordinary abilities is somehow an offense to God and all that is good. It’s like the people who do believe that being normal, dull, and miracle-dependent is the ideal character that Catholic readers/writers need to model after.

With all due respect to Tolkien, I’m not sure I like to champion ‘normal’ as a virtue. From a historical standpoint, plenty of the Catholic religion isn’t normal by the standards of non-believers.

Right. Good points. I guess I am thinking of a lot of the animated movies coming out in the last 10 or 15 years. You have Shrek where the ogre is the main character and the “damsel in distress” is really more ogre than damsel. Then you have stuff like Monsters Inc, How to Train Your Dragon, Hotel Transylvania, and more. And they all follow a similar motif: Monsters/Dragons/Vampires are just normal, regular folk and the ones who are afraid of them are just backwards.

Now, I don’t necessarily think that this tendency marks the death knell of society. But it does make me wonder why this has become the “new normal”.

So, to bring things back to the OP o), I can understand his desire to try to reclaim vampires as being evil beings rather than glittering dreamboats. I think it’s going to be a hard sell for him in the modern market, but if he’s a good enough story teller, perhaps he can pull it off.

 

[mikekle]

Not really related to vampires, but I have heard there was a man, who lived back in (I believe ), the early 1500s, somewhere in either Germany, or Europe, this man was said to have been given a wolves ‘pelt’ or belt, when he put this thing on, he would transform or shape shift into what we consider a ‘werewolf’.

Im not sure how true this is, but if you look back thru ancient history, there is alot of references to wolf-men, and they were not just crazy human men, they literally had the appearance of being half human, half wolf…I think there is something to all this, and I dont put it past Satan in give someone such a ‘belt’…I also have a feeling this was a crossroads type demon.

I think something similar could have taken place regarding what we call ‘vampires’.

 

[John_Lazarus]

I’ve butchered animals… where do you think your meat comes from?

Supermarkets.

They don’t come from animals.

Supermarket people lay these special traps out in the woods, made of pink or white styrofoam and saran wrap. A steak or porkchop bounces by, lands on the tray, and WHAP! the saran wraps around it.

The supermarket guy comes by, collects 'em all, puts price tags on them, and throws them in the meat cooler at the store.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Now, I don’t necessarily think that this tendency marks the death knell of society. But it does make me wonder why this has become the “new normal”.

My theory is that it’s because we’ve realized we’ve been lulled into a false sense of security by thinking that appearances and a certain skillset somehow belie a moral alignment. Unfortunately, it’s that kind of tragic naivety that lead to the clerical sex abuse of children. I’d dare say many religious people are so enthralled by the trappings of light even though it’s long known that Satan can put on a halo too.

Satan dressing himself up as an angel is hardly only meant to be as a metaphor for the sympathetic monster. Remember the oh-so-blind fanaticism which drove Christians to slaughter with the barbarity and single-mindedness of the modern terrorist. They thought their cause was holy… regardless of their means.

I think it’s going to be a hard sell for him in the modern market, but if he’s a good enough story teller, perhaps he can pull it off.

Anyone can pull it off. But as you said, your image of a burly vampire hunter slaughtering innocent vampire kids is not just a tough sell. It demonstrates that you can’t give humanity to something and then deny it so monstrously simply be declaring it ‘false.’

I think there is something to all this, and I dont put it past Satan in give someone such a ‘belt’…I also have a feeling this was a crossroads type demon.

You should. You give the devil too much credit. If I came across a belt like that, I’d call dibs and tell the Guy Downstairs to jump in the Lake of Fire. Frankly, I am sick of the old cliche that the divine and the demonic somehow have an unbreakable monopoly on the good stuff.

I see no reason to make deals with Satan when I can just tear off his wings.

Not to mention elves are not entirely synonymous with angels and they can be just as mortal, sentient, and most of all, fallible.

Supermarket people lay these special traps out in the woods, made of pink or white styrofoam and saran wrap. A steak or porkchop bounces by, lands on the tray, and WHAP! the saran wraps around it.

OMG!! THIS IS SORCERY!!! DEEEEEEEEBIL!!!