Successful Sinful Marriages

[scameter18]

I am Catholic, so while this topic is inquiring, it is not an attack, so let’s not be defensive.

The Catholic Church teaches that sex before marriage, in any form, is wrong. It also teaches that abnormal sexual practices within marriage, such as anal sex or masturbation, are wrong. It also teaches that these sexual practices can damage a marriage and are harmful in many ways, such as how the spouses view one another, their marriage, and the sexual act. But why is it that many marriages do all of these things, such as having premarital sex, masturbating before and during marriage, and other sinful sexual practices, and because the spouses love one another the marriage is successful and can last a lifetime?

Again, this is just a question. I know these things are wrong, I know the bad things they can produce. I’m just curious.

 

[kleine_katerine]

Things like that won’t necessarily stop people loving one another provided that they share a deep affection in the first place. But it does encourage the notion of treating someone as a sex object which in turn can cause some tension, even if it’s just beneath the surface.

I think the church’s concern is that people who have pre-marital sex, watch pornography, masturbate etc., will start to prefer satisfying their own sexual desires rather than fulfilling their role as husband/wife. When people put sex first that can and does destroy relationships.

Dunno if that made sense (but I haven’t had enough coffee yet!)

God bless,

Katherine

 

[passus]

The Catholic Church teaches that sex before marriage, in any form, is wrong. It also teaches that abnormal sexual practices within marriage, such as anal sex or masturbation, are wrong.

While the Church’s teaching that premarital sex and masturbation are wrong and immoral is very clear, the Church does not ban anal sex for married couples within the context of the marital act.

Christopher West writes in his book *Good News About Sex and Marriage *regarding anal sex:

A husband should never intentionally ejaculate anywhere but in his wife’s vagina. There’s nothing inherently wrong with anal penetration as foreplay to normal intercourse. Still, there are some important health and aesthetic considerations that can’t be overlooked (93).

But why is it that many marriages do all of these things, such as having premarital sex, masturbating before and during marriage, and other sinful sexual practices, and because the spouses love one another the marriage is successful and can last a lifetime?

All the same, how and why is it that a person who does not believe in God at all can live what is to you and me a very sinful lifestyle but nevertheless, appear happier and and more satisfied and content than we are? Does the lack of recognizable effects somehow detract from the gravity of the sins such a person is committing? We wouldn’t say that because no harm or damage is apparent that there is no harm or damage.

The effects of sin are not always obvious to us. In fact, sinful habits and an acclimation to sin can blind us to the effects of those very sins. We also cannot ignore the spiritual effects of our sins and their implications as far as our relationships with God and the states of our souls.

Finally, you cannot speak for the finest details of every marital relationship. You only know what you see and so problems in the bedroom, difficulty with communication or emotion, and any other complications that might ordinarily stem from sexual immorality within a marriage wouldn’t be quite apparent to you, now would they?

I hope that helps.

 

[scameter18]

Thank you both for your replies, and especially for treating this topic as a question and not an attack. I appreciate that. Thanks again.

 

[Seatuck]

Thank you both for your replies, and especially for treating this topic as a question and not an attack. I appreciate that. Thanks again.

We also have to remember that we are eternal beings. We might seem very happy here in this life but we have to be concerned about the next.

 

[mdgspencer]

What is a successful marriage? To Catholicism marriage is a vocation, something that leads one more to God–which is quite in keeping with the fact that in Catholicism it is a sacrament, meaning it becomes a channel of God’s grace. There are people, I am afraid who are happy in this life, and God allows this happiness as a reward for whatever good they do, who are not happy in the next life, because they are lost souls. I don’t know if you believe in purgatory, but if they face each other there, I expect that such people will feel that they made a bad mistake in their marriage.
A family member of mine has told me several times that she much admires the love of a couple she knows. However, the wife of this couple is already married, separated from her husband, and the couple whose love she praises is that of this woman and the boyfriend she has lived with her for years. Is our impression of the love a couple has enough to justify the character of their relationship? There are many marriages I suspect where the couples feel love but their relationship is a means of leading them away from God because of the sins they commit in their marriage.
I suspect too that generally if a couple loves God that their love will be greater and purer for each other. Sin is a rejection of love of God.
These are just my random thoughts, but perhaps some of them will help in this question.

 

[kage_ar]

Why does God appear to shower blessings of wealth and jobs and prosperity on sinners while people who try to live for God are left poor and unemployed?

 

[TLM08]

I am Catholic, so while this topic is inquiring, it is not an attack, so let’s not be defensive.

The Catholic Church teaches that sex before marriage, in any form, is wrong. It also teaches that abnormal sexual practices within marriage, such as anal sex or masturbation, are wrong. It also teaches that these sexual practices can damage a marriage and are harmful in many ways, such as how the spouses view one another, their marriage, and the sexual act. But why is it that many marriages do all of these things, such as having premarital sex, masturbating before and during marriage, and other sinful sexual practices, and because the spouses love one another the marriage is successful and can last a lifetime?

Again, this is just a question. I know these things are wrong, I know the bad things they can produce. I’m just curious.

Clearly modern western culture is totally consumed with sex. It can be a beautiful thing and yet it can be a terribly ugly thing when misused. Pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, rape, pedophelia, homosexuality and child abuse abound. A significant percentage of the entertainment industry has become a virtual sewer of putrid filth and athiestic perversion.

On the other hand, we have theologians of the Catholic Church who have become completely obsessed with sex in an opressive and legalistic sort of way. Those who claim to speak for God really need to cool it. It truly is crazy making for young married people desire the rewards that come from a high quality intimate life while still seek to do God’s will with their lives.

I am in agreement with the catholic church that the main purpose of our sexuality is procreation. However, scripture is silent regarding the activities in the marriage bed or the number of children we must produce. After a couple has brought the number children into this world that they can comfortably and properly raise, then they should be afforded the freedom to enjoy their intimate life without fear of destroying their financial future.

I think the main thing is to treat each other with love and respect in all things, and sex is no different. It all gets back to “do unto others”

 

[Luke_K]

All the same, how and why is it that a person who does not believe in God at all can live what is to you and me a very sinful lifestyle but nevertheless, appear happier and and more satisfied and content than we are? Does the lack of recognizable effects somehow detract from the gravity of the sins such a person is committing? We wouldn’t say that because no harm or damage is apparent that there is no harm or damage.

The effects of sin are not always obvious to us. In fact, sinful habits and an acclimation to sin can blind us to the effects of those very sins. We also cannot ignore the spiritual effects of our sins and their implications as far as our relationships with God and the states of our souls.

Finally, you cannot speak for the finest details of every marital relationship. You only know what you see and so problems in the bedroom, difficulty with communication or emotion, and any other complications that might ordinarily stem from sexual immorality within a marriage wouldn’t be quite apparent to you, now would they?

I hope that helps.

Why does God appear to shower blessings of wealth and jobs and prosperity on sinners while people who try to live for God are left poor and unemployed?

Good points. I’ll try to add to them.

Doing sinful things does not prevent people from doing good things. Just because a couple may commit sins in their relationship does not mean that God will abandon them to their sin. God will work whatever good he can in a situation while preserving our free will, and that includes helping a couple preserve their marital vows even though they may be disgracing them.

How is it that we can sin against God again and again, yet still get to heaven and be with him forever? It is because of his forgiveness and love for us. But of course we should do everything we can NOT to sin, because that will make our relationship with God (or marriage) easier and better.

 

[mdgspencer]

I understand since you describe yourself as a Bible-believing Christian why you wonder about some parts of Catholic sexual morality not shared by Protestants. Still, when you think of it, some of the things you objected to in your post are not condemned by nor even do they appear in the Bible, such as child abuse or poronography. Nor of course are counterfeiting or identity theft condemned by the Bible. But though these things are not condemned by the Bible, they are generally condemned by people now. Of course we all use other measures of sin besides the Bible. Catholics, for their part, listen to the teachings of their Church.
Perhaps one of the teachings you do not find in the Bible is artificial birth control, However, all Protestant churches condemned artificial birth control until the 1930s, and in fact it was illegal to sell artificial birth control devices until the 1930s. But I expect that you do not think that no Protestant churches before the 1930s were Bible-believing because of this, nor that any Christians were not Bible-believing because of this universal condemnation.
Of course, this is off the topic, which is on sinful marriages, not ones that are not sinful, so this is the only post I will make on these issues, unless you want to open another thread on these matters.

Clearly modern western culture is totally consumed with sex. It can be a beautiful thing and yet it can be a terribly ugly thing when misused. Pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, rape, pedophelia, homosexuality and child abuse abound. A significant percentage of the entertainment industry has become a virtual sewer of putrid filth and athiestic perversion.

On the other hand, we have theologians of the Catholic Church who have become completely obsessed with sex in an opressive and legalistic sort of way. Those who claim to speak for God really need to cool it. It truly is crazy making for young married people desire the rewards that come from a high quality intimate life while still seek to do God’s will with their lives.

I am in agreement with the catholic church that the main purpose of our sexuality is procreation. However, scripture is silent regarding the activities in the marriage bed or the number of children we must produce. After a couple has brought the number children into this world that they can comfortably and properly raise, then they should be afforded the freedom to enjoy their intimate life without fear of destroying their financial future.

I think the main thing is to treat each other with love and respect in all things, and sex is no different. It all gets back to “do unto others”

 

[mdgspencer]

Some of the saints have said that God makes sinners happy in this life as a reward for the good that they do here, leaving them with no reward in the next life, where they are lost souls.
This is fact seems a good argument for heaven and the other place, for if this was the only life, why would God allow some sinners to do so well in it?

Why does God appear to shower blessings of wealth and jobs and prosperity on sinners while people who try to live for God are left poor and unemployed?

 

[HNA444]

Why does God appear to shower blessings of wealth and jobs and prosperity on sinners while people who try to live for God are left poor and unemployed?

Sometimes it may seem like sinners are blessed with wealth, or jobs… but that does not mean they are happy. Also, even if they are happy, they may not get into heaven because of their sinful actions. The most important thing is that we make God proud of us, no matter what kind of life we have here on earth. A lot of it is free will, and sometimes life just isn’t fair also. But, as long as we live by the word of God, that should make someone truly blessed

 

[r4j]

Why does God appear to shower blessings of wealth and jobs and prosperity on sinners while people who try to live for God are left poor and unemployed?

Some things come to mind:
Our definition of justice is not God’s - God’s ways are so far above ours - is it justice to say one someone strikes you on one cheek, turn the other.
The rain falls on the just and the unjust.
If we truly live for God, we do not desire or want jobs or prosperity or wealth because we know that these things could divert us from giving ourselves to Him completely.
Look at the birds of the air, see how your heavenly Father takes care of them, would He not take care of you - trust in Him.
Lastly, Scott Hahn quotes a preivous Pope who was explaining the 4 or 5 different levels of God’s punishment or wrath. And the final level, if one does not repent and resist temptation, is for God to turn you over to your desires.