Suffering and temptations against faith, hope and love

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marybeloved
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Actually, my friend, I meant that YOU (Sufjon) seem so lost from CAF lately, it seems to me! I haven’t seen you around here for a long time, I was wondering if that is true (that you haven’t been coming here so much lately) or if it was just my perception. 🙂 But thanks for the words of wisdom, as always.👍

Peace.
Hi MaryBeloved - I was glad to see your post because I hadn’t seen you either. I guess we haven’t been on the same posts. I have been off disturbing the peace and causing misdemeanor mischief like usual on some other threads. 🙂

Your friend,
Sufjon
 
I could have posted this at the spirituality forum but I also wanted the views of non-Catholic Christians as well, plus Jews and even others. Have you ever gone through such anguish that you found yourself doubting the existence of God, Christ or the truth of your faith and wondered if you’ve invested so much energy, emotional and intellectual capital in a big hoax? Sometimes this happens to me, especially this year, but last year as well, but never during my first few years after conversion.

I’m curious as to how y’all deal with it per your own faith tradition? Is it a sin per your faith/tradition or merely a trial?
This is a very important question, Mb, as it seems to happen to nearly every sincere seeker, or so is the reportage. Myself, I’ve had sets of days, usually three, where I we sure that I would be extinguished or that I had gone quite bonkers about who and what I am and my relationship with God. Not to God, with God. I never doubted that God IS, but I sure had doubts about what was going on and about belief as such.

I gained a crucial insight at one point which freed me from certain constraints I had on my considerations due to my upbringing. After that I was in a state of excellent surety about one feature of humanity, but very concerned that I alone appeared to have that insight. It was very disturbing, as it felt like my religion, as I knew it, was insufficient to the explanation of my discovery, as was nearly everything I read or anyone I talked to. I felt utterly alone,

Since then, many decades later, I have come to discover many Catholic contemplatives and mystics who speak to the issues I was in the midst of. I won’t list them here, but the poster called Sufjon, though not a Catholic, has a handle on more than even I knew about! But I am grateful to a dear dear Friend, a fervent venerator of St. Francis of Assisi, who got me through much of my early days in a spectacularly unexpected fashion.

The only contemplative I didn’t see Sufjon mention, one of great importance in my estimation, though she is controversial in some circles. is a former Carmelite nun who decided that what was learned in silence had to be practiced in the marketplace, as she calls it. Her name is Bernadette Roberts. I have rarely seen such a close teasing out of one’s spiritual journey in all my decades of inquiry. And I have never seen one that so closely addresses Catholic teaching, or lack of it, in the matter of the contemplative life. Whether one agrees with her or not, if one even has the legitimate tools to be a critic of her accomplishment, she puts forth areas of needful consideration that are rarely if ever treated, and never from the pulpit, in my experience, at least in the more esoteric aspects of her delineations.

But whomever you choose to read or not, know that you are in the arms of Love, and not separate from the God who made you.
 
Well, I don’t know about St. John’s dark nights. There was a time I considered it, but truthfully, I don’t have his “signs”, at least not all.
You don’t have to have all the signs. However, your experience reminds me of a similar experience suffered by St. Therese of the Child Jesus, which she described in her “Story of a Soul.” Many theologians regarded the experience as an illustration of the dark nights.
But what you write about the feelings of utter frustration and helplessness, coupled with temptations against hope (to despair) is right on the money. I found myself thinking just last week that this Lent has turned out to be the truest Lenten experience of my life, and I found myself telling Our Lord that this time, the cross he picked for me is a bit excessive and that I couldn’t bear it even though our faith tells us that this is what is expected of us. It’s quite easy during the good times (spiritually speaking) to imagine that I’m a hero and that I can suffer even martyrdom for God- It’s quite another to actually do these things when you meet in your path particular difficulties that seem custom made for you in a way that defeats you and all your former fantasies about yourself and does not even allow you to entertain such falsehoods about yourself for a minute, at least not during the actual experience.
You are absolutely right. Sufferings and mortifications that we choose or impose upon ourselves are so much easier to bear than those that come directly from God’s hands.
Thank you for the poem. It takes an act of faith to practice it, as it’s hard to actually believe it in your bones, when your felt experience is that God is either absent or not listening. I thank God that they are not continuous (for me) and that somehow he finds a way to communicate to me through different mediums, that he’s real.
You are right again. You realize His act of carrying you through after the storm, not while the storm is raging on.
 
I could have posted this at the spirituality forum but I also wanted the views of non-Catholic Christians as well, plus Jews and even others. Have you ever gone through such anguish that you found yourself doubting the existence of God, Christ or the truth of your faith and wondered if you’ve invested so much energy, emotional and intellectual capital in a big hoax? Sometimes this happens to me, especially this year, but last year as well, but never during my first few years after conversion.

I’m curious as to how y’all deal with it per your own faith tradition? Is it a sin per your faith/tradition or merely a trial?
Yes! I am just now recovering from this. 😛

I think that the only remedy is either a gift of grace or a gift of logical help. What has happened over the past few months is that every major doubt of mine has had a conclusive answer within a few weeks, and so my faith has been restored. If this is a gift from God to me, I would like to share with you. 🙂

General advice: Draw close to the Eucharist and practice True Devotion to Mary. Those who are most sincerely devoted to Jesus and Mary are the closest to God. I learned about Therese Neumann from researching Eucharistic miracles, as a Cardinal mentioned her. I’ve been a Catholic for a few decades and had never heard of her. Other doubts of mine were resolved after reading apparitions, reports from exorcisms, and revelations from Jesus and Mary to the saints. Also, the clearing of doubt is a gift from God that you may have more merit in receiving after paying honor to those who have loved you, i.e. Jesus and Mary. Also, the quest for knowledge has generally been fruitful. “Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.”

Have you heard of Therese Neumann?
According to Paramahansa Yogananda, Therese Neumann said during his visit: “One of the reasons I am here on earth today is to prove that man can live by God’s invisible light, and not by food only.” His judgement was: “I realized at once that her strange life is intended by God to reassure all Christians of the historical authenticity of Jesus’ life and crucifixion as recorded in the New Testament, and to dramatically display the ever-living bond between the Galilean Master and his devotees.” When Paramahansa Yogananda questions the notion that Therese Neumann had lived eating only a daily eucharistic wafer for the past 12 years, she states that she lives by God’s light. The renowned yogi then suggests, “I see you realize that energy flows to your body from the ether, sun, and air.” Therese then smiles and expresses her happiness that he understands the way she lives.[12]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therese_Neumann

He writes about her in Autobiography of a Yogi. ** She was sent as a gift to doubters like us. :)**
 
Yes! I am just now recovering from this. 😛

I think that the only remedy is either a gift of grace or a gift of logical help. What has happened over the past few months is that every major doubt of mine has had a conclusive answer within a few weeks, and so my faith has been restored. If this is a gift from God to me, I would like to share with you. 🙂

General advice: Draw close to the Eucharist and practice True Devotion to Mary. Those who are most sincerely devoted to Jesus and Mary are the closest to God. I learned about Therese Neumann from researching Eucharistic miracles, as a Cardinal mentioned her. I’ve been a Catholic for a few decades and had never heard of her. Other doubts of mine were resolved after reading apparitions, reports from exorcisms, and revelations from Jesus and Mary to the saints. Also, the clearing of doubt is a gift from God that you may have more merit in receiving after paying honor to those who have loved you, i.e. Jesus and Mary. Also, the quest for knowledge has generally been fruitful. “Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.”

Have you heard of Therese Neumann?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therese_Neumann

He writes about her in Autobiography of a Yogi. ** She was sent as a gift to doubters like us. :)**
Thanks for your post; it came at the right time for me. I’ve been going through a similar phase the past few months too. The ChristianThinkTank.com website has really helped me–praise God for Glenn Miller–along with eerily accurate “words of knowledge” from devout Pentecostals which I have received or heard about.

If I may ask, what questions arose to cause your doubts?
 
Thanks for your post; it came at the right time for me. I’ve been going through a similar phase the past few months too. The ChristianThinkTank.com website has really helped me–praise God for Glenn Miller–along with eerily accurate “words of knowledge” from devout Pentecostals which I have received or heard about.

If I may ask, what questions arose to cause your doubts?
Very happy to help. 😛

After living a Catholic life for sometime I believed that I was walking into suffering.
{19:29} And anyone who has left behind home, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or land, for the sake of my name, shall receive one hundred times more, and shall possess eternal life.
I left several things that I would not have left b/c of my faith, but I felt after several years that I had not received rewards. In addition, my understanding of the Church had grown and I felt that I had made mistakes in following Christ that I couldn’t take back due to ignorance combined with sincere belief and striving to do the will of God. So I questioned why my path had been so hard if Scripture was true?

I read Dialogues by St. Catherine of Siena and Revelations by St. Bridget of Sweden that covered intellectually why I hadn’t received the promised rewards as well as other issues such as the inconsistency of different Gospel accounts. But the reason was unsatisfying to me, not because it wasn’t intellectually sound. But because they were unintuitive, and they simply caused me to believe I would never understand God’s will. Seeing a certain saint become a candidate for canonization (who I previously thought had been badly harmed by his experience in the Church) and realizing that a uniquely human inspirational Catholic priest was stationed in where the only approved Marian apparition is strengthened me in believing that God does eventually reward his followers. In fact, the greater the suffering, the greater the Crown. That gave me the peace of mind that my decisions weren’t as horrible as I previously imagined.

Then I knew of the Lanciano Eucharistic miracle, but I also started to question if somehow the flesh could have been a fraud after reading about “alterations” to other miracles. Most probably not, but I still questioned. Hearing about Therese of Neumann helped convince me that a miracle was definitively true.

Finally, I also questioned the theologians that I had read and some well respected Catholics as some seemed to diminish suffering that was real, glorify suffering that could have been relieved, or ignore certain sins. I’ll give an example of a Catholic priest who believed that gay people who were chaste their whole lives could not be comparable to saints who were virgins because the gay people didn’t choose homosexuality while the saints did choose virginity. This would also apply to singles who hadn’t found the right person but were still open to marriage. This would seem to me to negate the self-control practiced in turning down offers contrary to faith or seeking self-gratification. It was contradictory to me that a good God would have thought the way they did, but I did not have a strong logical reason to believe they were wrong. Finding out about the locutions of Mary that have been approved by Monsignor John Esseff reassured me that the fault was on the human weakness of these Catholics and theologians and not Mary or God, as Mary’s words were comforting and clearly contradicted with the human Catholic every time the Catholic downplayed suffering.

In short, I needed to be reminded that my beliefs were based on truth and not a fairytale and that my sacrifices were not in vain. 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top