Suffering vs. abortion

[ribozyme]

I believe it is best to cover this in a new thread:

I really do not see why I should believe that inchoate human life should be deemed as sacrosanct. It is not the case that the born will live in a poverty-free utopia where everyone is impervious from its unpleasant effects. Instead those “lucky” enough to born will learn that life is rather cruel, copiously filled with suffering, and is rather unfair. If I was going to go to heaven (I do not know how many people believe this here) if I was aborted by my mother, I could say that I would prefer to be aborted (as a “defenseless child”) than to live here. If God really loved the unborn, how could he would allow them to live in a world rife with suffering?

It should be a higher ethical priority to mitigate the concomitant suffering in human life than castigating abortion

 

[vern_humphrey]

I believe it is best to cover this in a new thread:

I really do not see why I should believe that inchoate human life should be deemed as sacrosanct. It is not the case that the born will live in a poverty-free utopia where everyone is impervious from its unpleasant effects. Instead those “lucky” enough to born will learn that life is rather cruel, copiously filled with suffering, and is rather unfair. If I was going to go to heaven (I do not know how many people believe this here) if I was aborted by my mother, I could say that I would prefer to be aborted (as a “defenseless child”) than to live here. If God really loved the unborn, how could he would allow them to live in a world rife with suffering?

It should be a higher ethical priority to mitigate the concomitant suffering in human life than castigating abortion

That’s called the Fallacy of Limited Alternatives – pretending we must do either-or, when in fact we can and do work against abortion while helping the mothers and children.

So rephrase it: It should be a higher ethical priority to **get a job **and contribute to mitigating the concomitant suffering in human life than castigating those who both contribute to charity and work to end abortion.

 

[ribozyme]

That’s called the Fallacy of Limited Alternatives – pretending we must do either-or, when in fact we can and do work against abortion while helping the mothers and children.

So rephrase it: It should be a higher ethical priority to **get a job **and contribute to mitigating the concomitant suffering in human life than castigating those who both contribute to charity and work to end abortion.

Well, some people have said that what has God done to fight poverty. Some have said that he has put me here. However, when one actually looks at the situation, they will realize that I am too insignificant to have a significant impact. I am not George Soros where I could significantly contribute to solutions. Charity for someone with my resources just makes me feel inadequate and insignificant.

George Soros himself KNOWS this. He knows he would not have a significant impact on the world if his net worth is several orders of magnitude lower. Such a thought scares him.

The main difference between me and other people who have amassed this kind of money is that I am primarily interested in ideas, and I don’t have much personal use for money. But I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn’t made money: My ideas would not have gotten much play.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

OK, I will take the bait.

God is “The Lord the Giver of Life” so, for this reason, we don’t take the life away of the innocent.

If you remember, in 2001 Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children to death. Part of the reason she did this was, according to her warped logic, was to protect them from evil, and send them to heaven where they wouldn’t have to suffer.

I have children, yet they do not belong to me, they belong to God. God gave them to me to take care of, to teach and to love among other things. They are gifts. Yes God loves the unborn, and in each unborn person, or actually in each of us lies the potential to be a saint or to be a sinner.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well, some people have said that what has God done to fight poverty. Some have said that he has put me here.

I agree that He put you here. But if He put you here to fight poverty, you’re sure lying down on the job!

However, when one actually looks at the situation, they will realize that I am too insignificant to have a significant impact. I am not George Soros where I could significantly contribute to solutions. Charity for someone with my resources just makes me feel inadequate and insignificant.

The main difference between you and George Soros is that he isn’t lazy.

George Soros himself KNOWS this. He knows he would not have a significant impact on the world if his net worth is several orders of magnitude lower.

So get to work and earn that money!!

Millions of poor people are counting on you.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Well, some people have said that what has God done to fight poverty. Some have said that he has put me here. However, when one actually looks at the situation, they will realize that I am too insignificant to have a significant impact. I am not George Soros where I could significantly contribute to solutions. Charity for someone with my resources just makes me feel inadequate and insignificant

So I guess, the vows of poverty taken by many religious who actually go and live among the poor, and work for them and serve them are useless. I don’t think these religious do it to boost their egos to not feel insignificant. They do it to serve God.

 

[mapleoak]

George Soros himself KNOWS this. He knows he would not have a significant impact on the world if his net worth is several orders of magnitude lower. Such a thought scares him.

You should ask George Soros what you should do if want to be like him.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You should ask George Soros what you should do if want to be like him.

No need to bother George. I can tell him what George would say, “Go to work!”

 

[mapleoak]

No need to bother George. I can tell him what George would say, “Go to work!”

I know. That is why I think it would be good to hear it from the horses mouth. (no disrespect to George intended)

 

[vern_humphrey]

I know. That is why I think it would be good to hear it from the horses mouth. (no disrespect to George intended)

I know what** you** were thinking when you said that.

 

[ribozyme]

No need to bother George. I can tell him what George would say, “Go to work!”

Would I eventually command a hedge fund with hundreds of millions in leveraged assets and get paid 20 and 2 and have the means to contribute significantly to charity?

So I guess, the vows of poverty taken by many religious who actually go and live among the poor, and work for them and serve them are useless. I don’t think these religious do it to boost their egos to not feel insignificant. They do it to serve God.

I find it hard to work with other people (I personally find it extremely difficult to talk to others and have relationships in real life) and it feels whatever I will do will be eclipsed by the magnitude of the problem. I prefer to contribute in the fashion of George Soros: indirectly and munificently.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Would I eventually command a hedge fund with hundreds of millions in leveraged assets and get paid 20 and 2 and have the means to contribute significantly to charity?

That depends on how hard you work, and how much talent and brains you have.

BTW, do you know what a “hedge fund” is?

I find it hard to work with other people (I personally find it extremely difficult to talk to others and have relationships in real life) and it feels whatever I will do will be eclipsed by the magnitude of the problem.

In that case, you probably don’t have the talent – since effective work demands you work with others.

 

[AmyS]

Would I eventually command a hedge fund with hundreds of millions in leveraged assets and get paid 20 and 2 and have the means to contribute significantly to charity?

I find it hard to work with other people (I personally find it extremely difficult to talk to others and have relationships in real life) and it feels whatever I will do will be eclipsed by the magnitude of the problem. I prefer to contribute in the fashion of George Soros: indirectly and munificently.

Sooo, the only way to contribute to helping those who are poor is by giving money? You have legs that work, and arms that work, and a head that thinks. Get out an volunteer! What do you know about being poor and poverty. What do you think about the people who live in those situations? They shouldn’t even be alive?

 

[Al_Masetti]

We only need a few geniuses to come up with new and improved ways to grow food, provide energy, improve transportation and communications, etc.

And we are probably killing those very people by aborting them.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

I believe it is best to cover this in a new thread:

I really do not see why I should believe that inchoate human life should be deemed as sacrosanct. It is not the case that the born will live in a poverty-free utopia where everyone is impervious from its unpleasant effects. Instead those “lucky” enough to born will learn that life is rather cruel, copiously filled with suffering, and is rather unfair. If I was going to go to heaven (I do not know how many people believe this here) if I was aborted by my mother, I could say that I would prefer to be aborted (as a “defenseless child”) than to live here. If God really loved the unborn, how could he would allow them to live in a world rife with suffering?

It should be a higher ethical priority to mitigate the concomitant suffering in human life than castigating abortion

Unborn children don’t go to heaven. I don’t know where you get this. What’s more, your argument is VERY weak. You have not been aborted. You cannot know whether it would be better not to live at all.
Also, your view tends toward Albigensian views - that the physical is evil. The Albigensians also believed that suicide is the highest good.

Following your philosophy, the human race should be driven to extinction.

Shall I also provide St. Dominic for an argument?

 

[YADA]

Well, some people have said that what has God done to fight poverty. Some have said that he has put me here. However, when one actually looks at the situation, they will realize that I am too insignificant to have a significant impact. I am not George Soros where I could significantly contribute to solutions. Charity for someone with my resources just makes me feel inadequate and insignificant.

George Soros himself KNOWS this. He knows he would not have a significant impact on the world if his net worth is several orders of magnitude lower. Such a thought scares him.

You desire to castigate those who work to correct a moral evil [abortion] while defending your lack of living the Christian call [serving mankind by helping those who are afflicted - as in feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, protecting innocent life, etc …

By relying upon the likes of George Soros you place yourself at the mercy of his ideas and ideals … George Soros supports many causes that are not faithful to the teachings of the Church and I believe that he is in fact a pro-abortion person …

You may not be able to feed 10,000 people but you can probably work to feed one and if 9,999 others join you then you will have collectively met the same need.

In any given year, I may not give millions but over a life time, my small gifts will amount to a great deal … and much of that is in the area of helping feed, cloth and house my fellow man … And themore I have lived the call to offer generously for others what God has given me, the richer [in all manner of ways] has my life become … God’s love flows in abundance, ours should flow in similar fashion…

If you want to alleviate suffering - then stop complaining about it, stop expecting others to end it … roll up your sleeves and open you checkbook … use your personal talents and time along with your personal funds …

 

[rlg94086]

George Soros himself KNOWS this. He knows he would not have a significant impact on the world if his net worth is several orders of magnitude lower. Such a thought scares him.

"The main difference between me and other people who have amassed this kind of money is that I am primarily interested in ideas, and I don’t have much personal use for money. But I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn’t made money: My ideas would not have gotten much play. "

I realize that someone who thinks George Soros is god may really take his comment seriously, but the rest of us read it and think…“oh yeah, the world would have stopped turning had George Soros’ ideas not ‘gotten much play.’” What a baffoon! He should realize that the world would get along just fine (maybe even better!) without his ideas.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

Well, some people have said that what has God done to fight poverty. Some have said that he has put me here. However, when one actually looks at the situation, they will realize that I am too insignificant to have a significant impact. I am not George Soros where I could significantly contribute to solutions. Charity for someone with my resources just makes me feel inadequate and insignificant.

George Soros himself KNOWS this. He knows he would not have a significant impact on the world if his net worth is several orders of magnitude lower. Such a thought scares him.

Ouch. Sorry. You. Hit. A. Nerve.

FEAR MY WRATH!



“Little Impact.”

Foolish mortal. If only one life is saved by the good you do, isn’t that enough to make it worthwhile?

Actually, scratch that.

To say that poverty is permanent, and that you are powerless to stop it is another rite in the passage of guilt that plagues our society.

You “cannot” do anything to stop poverty? That donation would go nowhere?

Tell that to the man sleeping under the bridge that begs for money. If what you say is true, than he may as well jump off the Chrysler Building.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I believe …those “lucky” enough to born will learn that life is rather cruel, copiously filled with suffering, and is rather unfair. If I was going to go to heaven (I do not know how many people believe this here) if I was aborted by my mother, I could say that I would prefer to be aborted (as a “defenseless child”) than to live here. *If God really loved the unborn, how could he would allow them to live in a world rife with suffering?

It should be a higher ethical priority to mitigate the concomitant suffering in human life than castigating abortion

Ethics? How do you feel about the end of your life without the philosophy to describe it? What if you had no say in the matter about your own life?

You ask “if God really loved the unborn” as if to suggest He doesn’t which would invalidate the purpose of giving life to begin with. To avoid the suffering of this life God gave us the Law and then he gave Himslef as an example so that we could avoid suffering. Which of His teachings or personal example is a cause of world suffering, or do you see His influence helping where people do suffer?

As far as we know we are unique to Creation and that shouldn’t go unnoticed and even if you prefer evolution, Humanity is at the pinicle of it all. You are master of your own world and that means power. You have ultimate power over any other thing living because you can kill it. You have purpose of mind and physical power to move the earth or to leave it. Life and spirit! You are like a god unto Gods creation. You should feel honored to have it; be free to live it, since it is freely given. With such power comes responsibility/liability.

The story of the OT is God giving humanity the Law which puts limits on our power with practical things like do not murder and steal and requires that we honor integrity as well as our parents. Even if you choose not to believe in God you probably agree with the other Commandments in principle because it is common decency.

God gave us humans life and liberty without restriction. What we do with it is up to us but we do not have the authority to end human life or restrict our freedoms without just cause and agreement. We are commanded by God a responsibility to care for each other with a potential liability if we do not. God does not permit us to suffer as in inflict it upon us for some purpose (without fair warning), but He might sometimes prevent it though we inflict suffering upon ourselves all the time without fair warning.

If more people listened to Him there would be less suffering and the banality of abortion to you might make it then seem more serious.

 

[ribozyme]

I realize that someone who thinks George Soros is god may really take his comment seriously, but the rest of us read it and think…“oh yeah, the world would have stopped turning had George Soros’ ideas not ‘gotten much play.’” What a baffoon! He should realize that the world would get along just fine (maybe even better!) without his ideas.

Do you honestly believe the world would have been a better place if Soros spend his money on 10 mega yachts and extremely opulent mansions instead of his philanthrophy?