Suggest a good Bible translation

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Zenkai said:
There are some fine translations out there, but I don’t like the notes in the NAB, JB, or NJB. The RSV-2CE is pretty good and I quite like it. I’ve heard good things about the Douay-Rheims, but I wanted a more modern translation.
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Yes, the Douay-Rheims is really dated. I have some beautiful copies of this but they are sort of museum pieces. The Douay-Rheims was a translation from the Latin Vulgate compiled circa 400AD. The Latin Vulgate in turn was a translation from the Greek manuscripts that were available to Jerome in 400AD, so you see, you have a double translation, which is not a good thing as it can cause changes in meaning and so on from the source text to the final readers’ text. And the texts Jerome worked from were late and few.

There are now available a larger number of good manuscripts than the ones Jerome had to work with. In fact, there are earlier, better-preserved manuscripts available to scholars today. Archaeology has been our friend.

There were a lot of mini-revisions of the Douay-Rheims also which didn’t actually use other manuscripts but rather were designed for certain pious purposes, which in the Victorian and Rationalist-reaction ages of Catholic history, make me nervous. When you’re looking at a copy of the Douay-Rheims outside a big museum, you’re virtually certain to be looking at one of these devotional copies. Many of them are barely used and that’s why you can occasionally find them in such good shape, ribbons and all.

Some printing houses still turn out Douay-Rheims and Knox bibles because there is a small Catholic market for them for whatever reason. Some people have a problem with using newer versions, even though they’re better versions, I guess.

BTW, the Knox bible also comes out of the Vulgate and is a double translation like the Douay-Rheims. It wouldn’t be my first choice for a study bible. Not at all. The RSV-2CE is going to be a much better choice for that.
 
iloveangels said:
BTW, the Knox bible also comes out of the Vulgate and is a double translation like the Douay-Rheims. It wouldn’t be my first choice for a study bible. Not at all. The RSV-2CE is going to be a much better choice for that.
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But the Knox was translated from the Vulgate while comparing it to the Hebrew and Greek originals.
 
Zenkai said:
But the Knox was translated from the Vulgate while comparing it to the Hebrew and Greek originals.
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Okay, that means that what they did was go back and compare because they were aware that there might be short-comings and they wanted to a) catch them, and b) tell their target market that they had done so.

It still wouldn’t be my first choice for a study bible. The RSV or the RSV-CE would be a much better choice from the ones you’ve listed. Or one of the other good study bibles on the market, some of which I like even better than the RSV.
 
iloveangels said:
Okay, that means that what they did was go back and compare because they were aware that there might be short-comings and they wanted to a) catch them, and b) tell their target market that they had done so.

It still wouldn’t be my first choice for a study bible. The RSV or some version of that would be a much better choice. Or one of the other good study bibles on the market.
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I do plan on getting the Ignatius RSV-2CE study Bible when it’s completed. But the Knox Bible is very beautiful and good to read.
 
Zenkai said:
I do plan on getting the Ignatius RSV-2CE study Bible when it’s completed. But the Knox Bible is very beautiful and good to read.
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Yes, and there’s a certain element of literary taste at work here too. If you were to go out and get the finest, newest study bible translated from original manuscripts by the best scholars in the world, but you really didn’t like reading it, it would completely fail in what it’s supposed to do, wouldn’t it?

The best bible for you is the one you want to read. That may very well be the Knox bible if that’s the one you really like, the one that feels right in your hands, the one that makes you feel better about reading it. It’s kind of hard to define, and honestly this part is value-free. If you’re looking for a reading bible or a devotional bible there are a lot of good ones on the market, and all your choices are pretty good for those purposes. So, it’s something only you can decide for yourself. There probably is no objective wrong answer or right answer to this part. It’s like choosing chocolate vs. strawberry. See what I mean?

And it depends on what you want to do with your bible too. I mean there are a lot of purposes scripture gets put to. If you’re reading it to find out what’s in it, the Knox will more than work. Same thing with devotional use or use in prayer. But it’s not a great serious study bible for analytical study unless it’s accompanied by something else more modern for comparison, that’s the thing. Neither is the Douay-Rheims or the KJV.
 
Personally, when I want to read the psalms in beautiful classical English, I reach for the KJV. That’s devotional stuff for me. Poetic, elegant, almost Shakespearean.

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me…

But I don’t use the KJV to do any word studies in scripture because word usage has changed since Elizabethan English was the language of choice, and I don’t want to make mistakes based on my own inability to navigate it perfectly. I’ve spent most of my life in the 20th century and I have to take that into account.
 
Zenkai said:
I do plan on getting the Ignatius RSV-2CE study Bible when it’s completed. But the Knox Bible is very beautiful and good to read.
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:confused: I thought it was already complete. Isn’t this it? That’s confusing. The page title says “second edition” but the detail says “RSV-CE”.
 
iloveangels said:
Personally, when I want to read the psalms in beautiful classical English, I reach for the KJV. That’s devotional stuff for me. Poetic, elegant, almost Shakespearean.

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me…

But I don’t use the KJV to do any word studies in scripture because word usage has changed since Elizabethan English was the language of choice, and I don’t want to make mistakes based on my own inability to navigate it perfectly. I’ve spent most of my life in the 20th century and I have to take that into account.
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Yeah, the KJV Psalms are very beautiful. The KJV translation of Psalm 23(22) is, in my opinion, the most beautiful version.
 
SonCatcher said:
If you have a few extra shekels and are into Salvador Dali, you might consider this edition (there are a number on eBay, too - some of those sellers posted the images for preview).
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Alas, Salvador Dali is not my cup of tea!

I understand there is/was a Bible done with woodcuts by Barry Moser (I think that’s the guy’s name).

Any other famous artist/Bible combinations?
 
iloveangels said:
The Douay-Rheims was a translation from the Latin Vulgate compiled circa 400AD. The Latin Vulgate in turn was a translation from the Greek manuscripts that were available to Jerome in 400AD, so you see, you have a double translation, which is not a good thing as it can cause changes in meaning and so on from the source text to the final readers’ text.
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Actually, though he did translate the Greek Septuagint, Jerome translated the Old Testament from the original Hebrew for the Vulgate. His translation of the Psalms from the Greek proved more popular than the later Hebrew-based version and was included in the Vulgate. For the Gospels, Jerome revised the Old Latin with reference to Greek texts. Most of the rest of the Vulgate New Testament was probably not Jerome’s work.

As to translating from Latin to English—I wonder if you have similar concerns for lost meaning when it comes to Vatican documents which are all promulgated in Latin.
iloveangels said:
And the texts Jerome worked from were late and few.
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Jerome began his work on the Vulgate in the 4th century. You describe his sources as late yet the source of many a modern translation is the Masoretic Text, centuries more recent.
iloveangels said:
There were a lot of mini-revisions of the Douay-Rheims also which didn’t actually use other manuscripts but rather were designed for certain pious purposes, which in the Victorian and Rationalist-reaction ages of Catholic history, make me nervous. When you’re looking at a copy of the Douay-Rheims outside a big museum, you’re virtually certain to be looking at one of these devotional copies.
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Not sure what any of this is referring to. The Douay-Rheims that served as THE bible in English for 200 years until the mid-20th century—obscure other editions notwithstanding—is the work of Bishop Challoner and was a major revision of the original. This is the same version still used today for new D-R bibles, for online versions and used for the biblical translations in Latin/English missals for use in the Extraordinary Form (Latin) Mass.

For those interested in a different view of the Douay-Rheims bible than the one presented in this thread, I recommend this short article: 7 Reasons Why I Love the old Douay-Rheims Bible
 
Cranch said:
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As to translating from Latin to English—I wonder if you have similar concerns for lost meaning when it comes to Vatican documents which are all promulgated in Latin.
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They don’t start out in Koine, do they? No.
Cranch said:
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For those interested in a different view of the Douay-Rheims bible than the one presented in this thread, I recommend this short article: 7 Reasons Why I Love the old Douay-Rheims Bible
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Just like the KJV, the Douay-Rheims has some hangers-on who feel they can’t use anything else. I understand this although I don’t agree with it. All propaganda aside, the Douay-Rheims is as dated as the KJV in all its editions and minor revisions, and I still don’t recommend it for anything except purely literary or devotional purposes.
 
Captain_America said:
I’m looking for a Bible translation that has some spirit, some poetry to it—but not gobs of such stuff.

Dry, simple words don’t do it for me. I can’t read the King James version.

I’m looking for something a bit literary; what works best?
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😦 No King James??:crying: that’s my favorite!
On a serious note, A parallel bible can be handy to have. I have one that has four different (KJV, RSV, The Living Bible, and the Modern Language Bible)
 
I don’t have a copy in front of me, but the Knox BIble is highly suspect in many areas. One-man bible translations are always going to suffer from the preferences of the translator. Knox often went way out into left field in particular passages, destroying their sacred sense. Here is Is. 7:14: “Maid shall be with child, and shall bear a son…” Doesn’t exactly convey prohetic grandeur…
 
johnbres2 said:
Here is Is. 7:14: “Maid shall be with child, and shall bear a son…” Doesn’t exactly convey prophetic grandeur…
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That’s not actually a bad translation, compared to “young woman” in the RSV-CE, NJB and NAB-RE.

Even the Jerusalem Bible (the original 1966 version, with an imprimatur from Cardinal Heenan) has “maiden”.

The trouble is that English has no simple word for “young, unmarried woman who is presumed to be a virgin” which is what the Hebrew almah means.

Translating this as “virgin” has been traditional, but destroys the “proleptic” aspect of this prophecy (that is, its double fulfillment: first the “type” of Hezekiah, and then the reality of Our Lord Jesus Christ); translating this as “young woman” makes it sound as if Christ was not involved at all!

“Maid” or “maiden” is actually the closest in English to capturing both meanings, and a man of letters like Monsignor Knox would have been well aware of this. 👍
 
johnbres2 said:
I don’t have a copy in front of me, but the Knox BIble is highly suspect in many areas. One-man bible translations are always going to suffer from the preferences of the translator. Knox often went way out into left field in particular passages, destroying their sacred sense. Here is Is. 7:14: “Maid shall be with child, and shall bear a son…” Doesn’t exactly convey prohetic grandeur…
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The Jerusalem Bible, NJB, and NAB all do something similar.

JB: “The Lord himself, therefore, will give you a sign. It is this: the maiden is with child and will soon give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel.”

NJB: “The Lord will give you a sign in any case: It is this: the young woman is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel.”

NAB: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign;* the young woman, pregnant and about to bear a son, shall name him Emmanuel.”

The only Catholic Bibles that I know of that have virgin are the Douay Rheims and the RSV-2CE.

Also, I should let you know that the Knox is much more conservative than the NAB, JB, and NJB in the notes.
 
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