Suggestions for my relationship?

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Rykuu

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So, i am a Catholic and my girl is a protestant who has no clue what to believe in (i just call her an Agnostic Christian). We already plan on getting married and all, i just haven’t formally proposed yet. My questions are as follows:
  1. How should we handle religion?.. Now, like i said she is Christian who is confused due to her family being everywhere. I think she will agree that we need to settle on one faith for the both of us, especially when kids enter the picture. She is very open to learning about my faith, i just haven’t talk much about it as untill she moves out of her parent’s house, converting and heavy discussion will cause insane havoc for her life and everything. And yes, i am a well educated Catholic, very deep in my faith, and top in the top 3 of every religious education group i participate in (i looovvvveeee theology and everything!)
  2. Living together before marriage?.. now, normally this is a red flag for pre-marital sex, but in our case, we aren’t idiots and already agreed if we live together we would wait till we’re married for that. The idea of this is so that when she goes to college, she doesn’t have to worry about money as much as i will be working while she is schooling, then after she gets her degree, we swap and i hit the books (or visa versa in the turn order).
  3. Dealing with family problems?.. as mentioned before, her family is a religious mess and not one Catholic. On top of that there us a 4 year difference in age between us, and her family can be called… psychotic would be a very kind word in this case. The only one we know will support us would be her birth dad and her sister (God only knows how much we owe us still being together due to her sister, else we would have been found out long ago).
  4. NFP?.. one thing i have to explain to her is why contraception is bad (she is virgin in all ways, and is against abortion, just was raised with the “birth control is ok” bull). I will do my best explaining it to her, but we naturally want to be sure that when we have kids, we are financial able to support them (Keeping clothes on their back and food in their stomach is a good thing to be able to do). So i am told, but need verification and legit respectable sources, that NFP (Natural Family Planning) is ok for Catholics if they are in that situation. I have no clue where to begin looking on this.
Thanks for everyone’s help in advance!!! Any and all other advice and tips are welcomed! And any forewarnings on things to look out for and ways to prevent or deal with them are also good.

Keep us in your prayers! Y’all are in mine!
 
  1. If your girlfriend is open to learning about your faith, I would suggest going down that path. She is Christian but not of a particular branch, so why not become Catholic? It would solve a lot of problems if you were both on the same page, especially once the children come along.
  2. Living together outside of marriage is a sin even if you don’t engage in pre-marital sex because of the scandal. It is also not a good idea to tempt yourselves. Why not get married? Even if you can’t afford a big wedding or a dream destination honeymoon, you can always have a big party or big trip for an anniversary.
  3. Another good reason to get married. You two will be a new family, a new household where you can help each other grow in faith and holiness, and leading each other to heaven. Her living at home isn’t going to help her spiritual life if they’re such a mess.
  4. There are a lot of good websites about NFP. Here is a good place to start: usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/
 
I would go with trying to settle on being Catholic because inter faith relationships can sometimes be difficult, but can work.
 
I, personally, would hold off on officially proposing. These issues seem like big ones, in my opinion. And just because she is Christian, doesn’t mean converting to Catholicism will be a piece of cake. It is a decision that, if authentically made, will need time.

She can start the process of RCIA – called Inquiry, without much commitment at all. 6 weeks of small tastings of Catholicism. From there, if she wants to continue, she can then become an candidate.

Note, however, that RCIA can take a while, depending on the parish. They want you to have the time to discern and the time to meet the community. It isn’t going to be a quick conversion by any means. You should know that, because it might mess up the type of wedding ceremony you both desire (i.e., if she’s not Catholic then you cannot have a nuptial mass).

And please do not pressure her to convert. This is her calling and her discernment. What happens if the hat doesn’t fit?

Things like NFP can take time for even Catholics to understand. I’m still working on understanding the Catholic Church’s position on birth control.

Finally, think about the reasons why we have marriage in the Catholic Church. Just a few:

(1) As a sacrament – a sign of God’s love for us.
(2) To bring children into the Church.
(3) To support one another on your journey to heaven.

Make sure that this is the right person for you to fulfill all of these requirements. Is she going to help you on your path to heaven? Do you both have the same understanding of the journey and what needs to happen along the path? And does she want to raise the (hypothetical, at this point) children in the Catholic Church? She can really only know the answer to that question if she has a proper and thorough exposure to the Church.

Good luck!
 
Rykuu said:

“The idea of this is so that when she goes to college, she doesn’t have to worry about money as much as i will be working while she is schooling, then after she gets her degree, we swap and i hit the books (or visa versa in the turn order).”
  1. Her family sounds so dysfunctional that I think she needs to spend at least a year or so living on her own (i.e. not living with you, within or outside of marriage). You don’t want her to be in a relationship with you just because she needs a place to live. Let her prove to herself that she can live on her own and do OK, and that she is choosing you because she loves you and wants a family, not because she you are her escape plan.
  2. I would not introduce economic interdependence in a non-marital relationship. Pay for dinners and flowers for a girlfriend? No problem. Pay for rent or a car payment? No. Economic inequality or dependence in marriage can be tricky, but it is terrible in a live-in situation. If you are doing something she hates (or vice versa), she shouldn’t be afraid to tell you because of her dependent situation. Live separately and let the relationship develop naturally.
  3. Iron out your religious issues before becoming engaged. Don’t push, but don’t offer a ring until you feel like she is well on her way. Be prepared to move on if there is no visible progress within a year or two after her moving out of her family home.
 
First of all, it is absolutely not a sin for a man and woman to live together chastely, which in your case would mean celibacy. The Church does not ban men and women from being roommates. The concern would be that might be knowingly placing yourselves in tempting situation.

Second, the idea that your girlfriend needs to live “on her own” to “find herself” prior to marrying you is modernist secular feminism, and is not nor has ever been at all countenanced by the Christian faith. We all bring baggage to our marriages, and sharing that is part of being married. Living on her own for a year is not going to magically make your girlfriend baggage-free. God made man and woman together and Christ told us that, if we do not or are not able to choose a live of celibacy as he did, we are to cleave to each other in marriage. There is nothing in the Church teaching, tradition, or history, biblical or otherwise, that says a young woman needs to live on her own after moving out of her father’s home and into the home of her husband.

NFP: Humana Vitae is explicitly clear that the legitimate purpose of NFP is to address concerns exactly like yours.

My advice is: don’t hold off proposing. However, recognize that betrothal does not have to be followed by marriage right away. Furthermore, while you are not forbidden from being roommates, you need to be very honest with yourselves about such a potential situation.

In your post, there are several signs of obfuscation. For example you say you have not really discussed your faith with her. Yet you surround this with assumptions that the only barrier to her conversion is her family Very doubtful; if she is as ignorant of the Church and the faith as you say, the process of discovery is going to be life-changing.

Furthermore you explain away her family’s behavior as “psychotic”. Unlikely, unless they have all been medically diagnosed and are off their meds. The truth, isn’t it, is that you disagree with their attitude towards you and your relationship. This doesn’t make them “psychotic”. I do not mean to say that you are lying; however, if you are absolutely convinced that you are right and they are 100% wrong, I can pretty much guarantee you that you are are wrong (which doesn’t make them right.)

In any event if you think you are going to be able to ignore the wishes of your in-laws by simply labeling them “psychotic” in your own mind, then son, you ain’t ready for marriage. You need to accept responsibility for making decisions that are against the wishes of her family, and you need to accept that they have a legitimate right and Christian obligation to express their point of view regarding your relationship.

Those two instances of obfuscation in your post cause me to believe that you may also not be being honest with yourself about how being “roommates” with your girlfriend is going to work out. Again I am not calling you a liar: we all frequently find ourselves rationalizing behavior in which we want to engage but possibly should not. Those, like you and I, who are most interested in theological study are by far the most at risk for this kind of temptation.

Finally, you need to completely divorce your girlfriend’s potential conversion from your plans to marry her. You are doing her a grave disservice by not discussing your faith with her because it happens to be inconvenient for you to do so. Presumably you think you are in love with her. Yet you are deliberately withholding from her knowledge that might help her to find to eternal life in Christ. Can you sincerely withhold this from her one day longer because it is inconvenient in the context of your relationship - and claim that you truly love her? If so, you clearly ain’t ready for marriage.

Finally, some non-spiritual advice. Putting each other through college sounds like a great way to avoid going into unnecessary debt; good idea and good for you. However, if one of you can work and support the both of you in this economy, ask yourselves why you feel the need to go to college at all. I’m not saying don’t go to college: university is a requirement for many careers. However, there are quite a lot of things you can do that are honorable, important and fulfilling (and monetarily enriching) work that do not require a college degree. Going to college doesn’t make you any smarter or more knowledgeable; you can read books and attend seminars and even write articles or papers or books all without being a “student”. If you have a career plan that requires college, go - but don’t go to college just because it’s the thing the secular media society tells you you ought to do. It is very likely that, if you work in a trade for 4 years to put your (future) wife through school, it will not make economic sense for you to quit your career and go to college. Again, it may be that you will want to switch careers and don’t mind the monetary opportunity cost; however by that time you may well be trying to conceive or already have a baby around the house and your responsibilities as a parent may preclude you from going to back to school at that time. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If, on the other hand, your wife works to put you through school, keep in mind that if after that the plan is for her to go to college, it is going to be pretty much impossible for you to plan to conceive while she is busy with coursework and prior to that when she is your sole source of income and you are in school it is going to be very difficult to handle raising an infant, so you are talking about putting off first conception for from 6 to 10 years depending on how long you both take to go through all your coursework. These are all costs of going to college in addition to the monetary cost of tuition. Be sure you know what all the costs are and that you are willing to “pay” them.

Deus Tecum,
 
Don’t get married yet. In fact, don’t even count on it.

From the sounds of it your girlfriend is very young. She has no idea what she believes, and if she’s as young as it sounds there’s a good chance that her beliefs and values will change and evolve a lot before she settles on what she really believes. Not only that, but you presented us with a very long list of things that you have yet to talk about with her. You can’t even begin to plan to marry someone without hashing these things out first.
 
First of all, it is absolutely not a sin for a man and woman to live together chastely, which in your case would mean celibacy. The Church does not ban men and women from being roommates. The concern would be that might be knowingly placing yourselves in tempting situation.



Deus Tecum,
Thanks for the reply!

Sorry, had to trim your post in the quote dye to character limit.

Ya, i know there are alot of roadblocks and potential problems and stuff that needs to be addressed.

I can safely say her family is psychotic in a decent sense as it is medically diagnosed true. A nice chunk of them have disorders and don’t take meds. She has ADHD and her mom is just letting her get meds this week! They are in all honesty a problem for her as they constantly put her down and have made her think she us complete garbage. I have just gotten her mostly out of that mindset (took forever and getting her sister to tell me alot about her childhood).

I have been trying to get her to learn the Catholic faith more, recently, but same roadblocks as before. Mainly her family. I have an idea, but it will take a little bit to enact upon. Her main issue is that she feels she needs to pretend to be all these different protestant groups for her family. So that is the reason i haven’t been able to do it is because of this. She wants to learn, but when i try to teach, it all gets lost amongst everything else. I am surprised she hasn’t broken yet, she is very strong. I am teaching her the absolute basics though. I try to sneak in alot of stuff in ways she can retain it, primarily through my examples. But i plan to go all out when she isn’t burdened with the other stresses. I understand that true love is giving the fullness of the truth to your love, but alas, she would then be even more stressed and think she has to pretend to be Catholic. It would garm her more than help her at this stage, but i m doing what i can. Any extra help on this is greatly appriciated!

As for my college idea, i wish to be a psychologist, and that pretty much needs a degree i hear. She wishes to be one to, or else a model or a dancer if it doesn’t work out. So that is why the schooling is of importance. I understand by that time, Jr. may be teetering around, or other things may come up, but still it is the best solution we have to keep us from taking out loans and going into debt.

Thanks again for your answer!
 
First of all, it is absolutely not a sin for a man and woman to live together chastely, which in your case would mean celibacy. The Church does not ban men and women from being roommates. The concern would be that might be knowingly placing yourselves in tempting situation.
While there are some circumstances that men and woman can live together, I don’t believe that the OP’s situation is one of them. We are dealing with two people that are discerning marriage that have very serious issues to deal with. Creating such dependence and attachment clouds one’s thinking and can result in making wrong decisions that will affect them for the rest of their lives. Bad, bad, bad idea.

With regard to rest of the issues, the OP needs to seriously evaluate his situation. These are huge obstacles to overcome, if at all possible to overcome; not a good sign early on in a relationship. Example, it is unreasonable to expect someone to change one’s religion. That is a personal decision. And more importantly, the family issues will not go away, and will likely become worse in the future.

That’s just some advice from someone that married (and subsequently divorced) a non-Catholic Christian with family issues.
 
Rykuu said:

“She wishes to be one to, or else a model or a dancer if it doesn’t work out.”

If she has the real option of modeling (rather than just a dream), she should do so now. If that is a real possibility, she could easily put herself through school with that money and either model and study at the same time, or model and save and then do school afterwards. It makes more sense to model and then “retire” to psychology than to try psychology and fall back on modeling. Neither modeling nor dancing is the sort of thing you can do for a 30-year career. It also occurs to me that for a person with low self-esteem, modeling or showbiz might be quite disastrous. That said, ADHD can make college very difficult if not impossible, so it is important to come up with fall-back plans, in case she is not able to manage the academic load.

Given how troubled her background is, it’s very important that she have a chance to live independently, build up her self esteem, and not have to worry about pleasing the people she lives with. She needs some time either living alone or with roommates that she doesn’t have a huge, intense relationship with. If she does that for a year and is still romantically interested in you at the end of it, best wishes!

Given that you are both starting out in life and that she is coming from a very chaotic home, I suggest doing a personal finance class together. Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University is very easy to find (there’s also an on-line version) and there are probably other classes that would be helpful.
 
FWIW, as the prior posted noted, modeling/dancing/acting (and other entertainment fields) are not easy to make a career out of. Modeling as a career is basically one of pure luck. What someone considers good looks may not be what agencies are looking for at a particular point in time. The fields are also highly competitive, and one has to have a strong stomach for rejection, because that’s part of those careers. I have experience dealing with these agencies, and act as an agent for my family.
 
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