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Not personally, but yes, I fear that for a person who already probably lacks an adequate foundation in terms of knowledge and critical thinking skills, such an aggressively polemical - and, from what I have heard, poorly reasoned - book would only deepen his confusion. Do you have any reason to think there is nothing to fear from such a book? 🙂
I don’t think there is anything to fear from the book, I think it could help the OP go in either direction. I know for me personally it was a great help. It made me feel more comfortable with my own beliefs, and helped me get rid of some fears and doubts that I had.

Someone reading it who is “on the fence” so to speak, could possibly be driven in either direction by it.
 
I don’t think there is anything to fear from the book, I think it could help the OP go in either direction. I know for me personally it was a great help. It made me feel more comfortable with my own beliefs, and helped me get rid of some fears and doubts that I had.

Someone reading it who is “on the fence” so to speak, could possibly be driven in either direction by it.
So do you think that any of what you have written constitutes a reason for thinking there is nothing to fear from reading such a book?
 
Possible CS Lewis’s Surprised by Hope, which talks about his early life, his atheism, doubts, and eventual, reluctant conversion.

Lee’s Strobel’s Books The Case For Christ are also pretty well regarded. He was an atheist journalist, who undertook an investigation of Christian claims and became convinced.

The stuff by William Lane Craig, I also find good. amazon.com/Guard-Defending-Faith-Reason-Precision/dp/1434764885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295460313&sr=8-1

that’s a good place to start, and he also has a website, reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer

Besides CS Lewis, I also like GK Chesteron, Orthodoxy is good, and also the everlasting man.

There’s nothing wrong with sampling Dawkins, but I don’t find him interesting. If you do, make sure also to read something critcal of him to go with it. Criag has a short review on his website, and the Philosopher Alvin Plantinga also has a long 10 page or so review called “the dawkin’s confusion.”
 
“Godless” by Dan Barker. He was an evangelical Christian minister and in this book he talks about his deconversion, including the fear and trepidation he felt, how some of his closest friends and family reacted (better than he’d expected), and his experiences since becoming an atheist.

It seems to me that you are not asking for reading material that will help you regain your discarded faith. This point seems to have been missed by many of the theists by on this thread (“I’ll pray for you?” Seriously?) You want help coming to terms with your discarded faith.

Dan Barker’s book is not expensive, and reading about the experiences of someone who has trodden the same path you’re on will hopefully help you.

Good luck!
 
It seems to me that you are not asking for reading material that will help you regain your discarded faith. This point seems to have been missed by many of the theists by on this thread (“I’ll pray for you?” Seriously?) You want help coming to terms with your discarded faith.
LOL! I think you should re-read the OP. He came to a *Catholic *forum for advice and posted the following:

At this point in my life, my faith is completely illusory. I ask that you please don’t judge; what I’d like is some references to either books or websites for people with doubts like mine. When I say doubts, I mean serious ones, e.g. the flying spaghetti monster and the Catholic God are on equal playing field in my mind. I’ve used my own judgment to come to this conclusion, so** I need resources that are prepared to counter my objections.

I really don’t want to give up my religion**, but honestly at this point, it would be a facade for the sake of my family. So any suggestions on resources?

So, yeah; your suggestion doesn’t really seem to fit the bill. Maybe you’ve successfully delved beneath the text and uncovered the unconscious desire the OP has, but probably you’re just projecting your own desire/need for self-affirmation, in spite of the evidence against you.
 
“Godless” by Dan Barker. He was an evangelical Christian minister and in this book he talks about his deconversion, including the fear and trepidation he felt, how some of his closest friends and family reacted (better than he’d expected), and his experiences since becoming an atheist.

It seems to me that you are not asking for reading material that will help you regain your discarded faith. This point seems to have been missed by many of the theists by on this thread (“I’ll pray for you?” Seriously?) You want help coming to terms with your discarded faith.

Dan Barker’s book is not expensive, and reading about the experiences of someone who has trodden the same path you’re on will hopefully help you.

Good luck!
I would suggest that reading material is not the answer because lack of knowledge is not the problem.

The problem is a heart problem, a love problem.

The heart is reached through prayer, being honest with yourself and God

My suggestion is that you (the OP) commit to at least 1 hour per week, preferable in front of the Eucharist, to pray. During this hour pour out your doubts and fears to God, then sit quietly for God to respond.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention Patrick Madrid’s new book - “The Godless Delusion - A Catholic Challenge to Modern Atheism.”
 
I would recommend reading “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You’re kidding, right? I mean, you may want him to be on your side, and that’s fine, but you plan on using that to get him there?!?! It’s the most unsubstantianative “non-fiction” book I’ve ever read.

Now, to answer the OP:
I really don’t want to give up my religion, but honestly at this point, it would be a facade for the sake of my family. So any suggestions on resources?
First of all, don’t listen to any atheists on this thread. If you want to only look at Catholic Apologetics, then do it. 🙂

Anyway, I’m about to bombard you with resources, so try to sit through it all -

Books:

New Proofs for the Existence of God by Robert Spitzer

Reasonable Faith by William Lane Craig

There is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed his Mind by Antony Flew

The Handbook of Catholic Apologetics by Peter Kreeft

Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton

Websites:

The Magis Center for Reason and Faith

Tektonics

PhilVaz’s Site

Reasonable Faith (William Lane Craig’s Site)

Answering Infidels

Lots of those sites also have “contact” options. Really great stuff out there. Feel free to PM me on any specific doubts you’ve been having.
 
Wow, I come back 12 hours later and there’s already a page of answers! For the record, I’m a ‘she’, for all those writing ‘they’ or ‘he’. Weird that nobody assumed I was a woman. 🙂 In any case, I’ll try to respond to as many of these as I can. This may be long.
I was kind of in your shoes not too long ago - I had left the Church and embraced all sorts of New Age teachings. I was convinced that belief in the Judeo-Christian God and Jesus Christ was for simple minded people or people that had a blind faith.

My sister (a devout catholic) gave me a few books by a former confirmed atheist. He is an investigative reporter who went on a search for all the evidence against a Creator, Faith, and Jesus Christ. He used all of his experience as an award-winning journalist for the Chicago Tribune.

The evidence he found was shocking - it overwhelmingly supported a Creator, Faith, and Jesus Christ.

The author’s name is Lee Strobel. You can find his books on Amazon and at most bookstores. Some of the titles are:

“The Case for Christ”

“The Case for a Creator”

“The Case for Faith”

—May the Holy Spirit Guide and Keep You—
Well, I appreciate the references (and to the person who suggested the titles on Netflix, thanks as well!), but I think you have me mistaken when it comes to how I got to this point. I don’t think people with religion are simple minded. I don’t think I am superior, nor do I think people have blind faith (although some do, I’m sure).
for Catholic and atheism as personal choices of belief, not abstract truths, substitute “particle physics”, “the process of cell division” or any concept difficult or impossible for non-scientists to observe, explain or understand. Would you say it is logical or sane to insist that your own personal beliefs or interpretation are enough to override a scientific fact or truth, even one established by generations of minds wiser and more observant than you. That is, would you say my grandmother’s personal opinion that “men never landed on the moon, it was a hoax propagated by TV”, is equally valid and true compared with the consensus of NASA on that topic?

For the scientist to be able to observe and report the truth it is necessary to have humility to study the work of others who have come before him, and he cannot even publish the results of his own research without peer review. Apply this standard now to religion. Is it not wise to at least allow for the possibility that “clouds of witnesses” of people wiser, more receptive, and more interested in hearing the revelation of Truth, and more experienced in testing and acting on those beliefs, might be more reliable than unaided personal opinion?
You are presenting this argument as if God is something that can be measured. Additionally, you are forcing religion and science to fight. They’re mutually exclusive; you can’t compare an apple to a spaceship and you can’t compare scientific theory to God. But if you insist, I will counter that there is no such thing as “peer-reviewed religion”, especially within the context of the Catholic Church. If the Pope uses his infallibility, NOBODY can argue that. That’s hardly peer-reviewed. You may argue and say that he is chosen by God and thus his infallibility is valid, but there is no proof in that. It’s all faith. Faith that what the leaders in the Vatican say is right. Faith. Not proof.

All these witnesses that you claim I should listen to. Perhaps their “miracles” just haven’t been explained scientifically yet. I broke my nose when I was a kid, and sometimes when I’m congested, I will cry blood. But if people didn’t know any better, I could say I was touched by God and I guarantee I would have believers.
Enough of this.

If you have doubts, please don’t try to explain it away by mentioning this. I don’t buy that Catholicism is what makes anyone feel guilty. It is often used as a catch-all phrase by people that want to bash Catholicism or excuse themselves of their failings. First, you need to really identify what your doubts are. And then, if you truly are interested in believing in more than the spaghetti god, you will do some reading as suggested by another poster and come to a logical decision.
Ouch. What I mentioned in passing really got you going. It may be different for you, but 12 years of Catholic education has taught me to look at everything from a “am I sinning?” approach. If that’s not guilt, I don’t know what is. Please explain why I offended so much.
I would suggest trying to keep the parts of Catholicism you like, if any, in order to give God (if he exists) some room teach you, and allow you to discover him.

the Christian way of life, even if all the theological things about God are wrong, is still a pretty good way to live one’s life, provided you can avoid the guilt, which I agree is a challenge.
Here’s the issue though. Have you been on any other forums besides the Philosophy one? I was just torn apart in Family Life for my thoughts on premarital sex. I presented my argument and then the women there berated me for even being in the discussion. “You’re not contributing anything positive so what’s your point in being here?” Wow. Do I really want to be a part of something that’s so all-or-nothing? If I don’t believe every single word that issues from the mouth of a priest on up to the Pope, I’m essentially going straight to hell.

The “Christian” way of life is just a reason to be moral, but you can definitely be a moral atheist. I don’t see why I couldn’t have the same moral code whether I believed in a omnipotent being or not. I don’t think that reason would work for me to stay in the church.

more below_
 
First of all, your honesty is commendable. Second, if you find “flying spaghetti monster” arguments compelling, there have to be some very basic shortcomings in your reasoning process - with due respect, you have to be very confused/ignorant to find such arguments compelling. Go ahead and present your case for the flying spaghetti monster though - we can examine it together and see how sound it is.

A good book, non-technical, great for refreshing one’s perspective in a largely post-Christian society: Chesterton, Orthodoxy.
I also recommend Peter Kreeft’s book on Pascal, Christianity for Modern Pagans.
Pope Benedict’s writings are also excellent, e.g., The Ratzinger Report or the new one (I forget the name), or one of his encyclicals, Deus Caritas Est or Spe Salvi (or the third one, which I haven’t read yet myself).
I don’t think it’s that the OP finds a “flying spaghetti monster” argument compelling, it’s that they don’t find the various proofs for God compelling anymore. They are saying they believe that the existence of God sounds about as likely as the existence of a flying spaghetti monster.

ChadS
Chad’s right here. I was just saying that I feel that God is as made up as the FSM. I don’t have proof for its existence, therefore I can’t assume that it exists. In the same way, I have no proof for God’s existence, therefore I can’t assume he exists.

Thank you for some more recommendations though, although Pascal and his whole wager thing kind of irritate me. Out of fear that maybe a god exists, I should just believe in one? What if I pick the wrong one?
I would recommend reading “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins as well as The Holy Bible. I myself am getting married soon, and not in a church. My mother is not happy with that decision.
I’ve been meaning too, but I find his derisive attitude to be a bit much. Regarding religion, you can believe what you want, but don’t make other people feel like dumb-butts. That’s not cool.
“Godless” by Dan Barker. He was an evangelical Christian minister and in this book he talks about his deconversion, including the fear and trepidation he felt, how some of his closest friends and family reacted (better than he’d expected), and his experiences since becoming an atheist.

It seems to me that you are not asking for reading material that will help you regain your discarded faith. This point seems to have been missed by many of the theists by on this thread (“I’ll pray for you?” Seriously?) You want help coming to terms with your discarded faith.

Dan Barker’s book is not expensive, and reading about the experiences of someone who has trodden the same path you’re on will hopefully help you.

Good luck!
Interesting. You’re first paragraph describes me perfectly. Why didn’t I think of that word before? I have trepidation. Thanks for the suggestion.
Oh, I forgot to mention Patrick Madrid’s new book - “The Godless Delusion - A Catholic Challenge to Modern Atheism.”
Sounds like a potentially good counterargument to the God Delusion. Perhaps I should read them as a set:)

Thanks for all the answers everyone! To clarify (because there seems to be some confusion), I am leaning toward atheism, or at least strong agnosticism, but because of trepidation (;)) and general learned fear (I’m scared to say Catholic guilt now), I am scared to let go of my Catholic roots. My purpose was to find resources that would convince me that I’m wrong and lovin God is the bee’s knees. I can’t force myself to believe something though, so I wanted to peruse all of the resources I could. I know this kind of stuff is a life long learning process, and maybe I’ll jump from being Catholic to agnostic to Catholic to Atheist to Buddhist to Catholic. You never know with life. You guys have given me a lot of places to look for answers though, so that I can come up with my own conclusions. So for that, thanks. 🙂
 
Chad’s right here. I was just saying that I feel that God is as made up as the FSM. I don’t have proof for its existence, therefore I can’t assume that it exists. In the same way, I have no proof for God’s existence, therefore I can’t assume he exists.
No, Chad’s not right here, because, contra Chad, I know that’s what the FSM argument is, as I pointed out (see post 15) - and as I mentioned, it is not an argument that could possibly convince anyone who has a minimal level of knowledge and the most basic critical thinking skills.

Anyway, if you’d like to do your own research, that’s cool. Or if you’d like to discuss your “I don’t have proof” argument against belief in God and consider what might be wrong with it, we could do that. Just say the word.
Thank you for some more recommendations though, although Pascal and his whole wager thing kind of irritate me. Out of fear that maybe a god exists, I should just believe in one? What if I pick the wrong one?
What if you get irritated by ‘Pascal’ because you are attributing an argument to him that he never made? Maybe you’ll read the book some day, then you’ll know better.
 
No, Chad’s not right here, because, contra Chad, I know that’s what the FSM argument is, as I pointed out (see post 15) - and as I mentioned, it is not an argument that could possibly convince anyone who has a minimal level of knowledge and the most basic critical thinking skills.

Anyway, if you’d like to do your own research, that’s cool. Or if you’d like to discuss your “I don’t have proof” argument against belief in God and consider what might be wrong with it, we could do that. Just say the word.

What if you get irritated by ‘Pascal’ because you are attributing an argument to him that he never made? Maybe you’ll read the book some day, then you’ll know better.
I don’t understand why you’re being so hostile. Chad was right in teasing out the MEANING of my words, not some extrapolated argument that you have seemed to make up. I never said those things, and frankly, I find your multiple insults at my intelligence to be highly offensive. I should like to think that I possess critical thinking skills, but since there is no argument on this particular thread, I don’t see why I have to use them. I simply asked for intelligent resources from both sides of the argument so that I can use my critical thinking (gasp!) to come to terms with my own beliefs, whatever they may be.

In regards to the Pascal thing, I’m sorry. I don’t understand (again!) why you are getting so defensive. Am I not allowed to have an OPINION??? My favorite color is green; do you have a problem with that too??? I guess my 11th grade religion teacher taught something false about Pascal that I have carried with me and apparently this makes you angry.

Seriously dude, back off. I asked a question; I got more than enough reading suggestions. I don’t need your criticisms or insults. Maybe I’m not the best writer, and maybe I have a slight problem getting my point across in prose, but that hardly makes me stupid.
 
I don’t understand why you’re being so hostile. Chad was right in teasing out the MEANING of my words, not some extrapolated argument that you have seemed to make up.
What are you talking about?? Chad was not right. What he “teased out” was already intended in what I wrote; he mistakenly assumed that I had misunderstood the nature of the FSM argument. It’s pretty clear cut, despite your assertions to the contrary. 🤷
I never said those things, and frankly, I find your multiple insults at my intelligence to be highly offensive.
Never said what things? What insults to your intelligence?
I should like to think that I possess critical thinking skills, but since there is no argument on this particular thread, I don’t see why I have to use them. I simply asked for intelligent resources from both sides of the argument so that I can use my critical thinking (gasp!) to come to terms with my own beliefs, whatever they may be.
Actually you did mention an argument: remember the FSM? So critical think that one for me: am I the one who is confused? (Hint: if I am, you should explain this instead of getting all huffy.)
In regards to the Pascal thing, I’m sorry. I don’t understand (again!) why you are getting so defensive.
Defensive? I pointed out that you misrepresented Pascal’s argument. How is that “getting so defensive”??
Am I not allowed to have an OPINION???
Of course you can have an opinion. But when that opinion is actually a belief, and that belief happens to be false, you really shouldn’t cling to it and get angry when someone points out that you are misinformed.
My favorite color is green; do you have a problem with that too???
Why would I? Does this comment fairly represent the kind of critical thinking skills you possess?
I guess my 11th grade religion teacher taught something false about Pascal that I have carried with me and apparently this makes you angry.
Angry? :confused:

I wrote: “What if you get irritated by ‘Pascal’ because you are attributing an argument to him that he never made? Maybe you’ll read the book some day, then you’ll know better.”

Where is the anger? Are you maybe just projecting?
Seriously dude, back off. I asked a question; I got more than enough reading suggestions. I don’t need your criticisms or insults. Maybe I’m not the best writer, and maybe I have a slight problem getting my point across in prose, but that hardly makes me stupid.
Whether or not you are stupid is irrelevant. I certainly never claimed you were. I will claim that you seem to lack humility and your assertion that you don’t need my criticisms quite possibly says more about this lack of humility (and what comes with it: open-mindedness) than about what it is you need. If you want to disagree with my position, please feel free to say so. I’m happy to listen to criticisms. But please don’t just get angry and start attacking me with these unexplained accusations that I’m angry and I’m insulting you.
 
plinko,
Reviewing the record I must note, the truth is that you’ve actually made plenty of arguments on this thread, and there is plenty of “critical thinking” displayed, the weakness of which I could analyze for you. (I have some professional experience doing this kind of thing, in case you’re wondering). Please don’t attribute anger to me because I have pointed this out. I’m just suggesting you reconsider the adequacy of your rather precipitous and blustery self-assurance as a starting point for an effective inquiry into the truth.
 
I’m sorry. As an irrational woman, I read too much into what people say. You said that I lacked “basic critical thinking skills”, called me “confused and illogical”, and said I was “ignorant” and lack “humility”. I equated that with you calling me stupid, and for that I apologize.

Thank you for taking the time to counter each and every one of my sentences. I see now how disrespectful I was being and would like nothing more than to just begin reading so that I may be more intellectually on par with you. I think I’ll start with Pascal.

I ask that you please do not reply to this thread, for I am done with it. It served the purpose I needed it for and all you will do is get my fragile female mind worked up again.

Thank you sir (or madam). I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and your time. 👍
 
Thank you for taking the time to counter each and every one of my sentences.
Well that’s kind of what critical thinking is about: addressing what your interlocutor actually said instead of just emoting. I take it that your response here is basically all sarcasm(?), and I feel compelled to point out that if it is, that is pretty much the opposite of a sound approach to critical thinking. 🤷
would like nothing more than to just begin reading so that I may be more intellectually on par with you
Consider, however, that an important intellectual element you seem be missing now is just a sincere commitment to rational, respectful dialogue, in pursuit of the truth, rather than in pursuit of your ego (this is something we all struggle with at times, it’s not something unique to you) - and this isn’t necessarily something you can learn from a book.
 
I’m sorry. As an irrational woman, I read too much into what people say. You said that I lacked “basic critical thinking skills”, called me “confused and illogical”, and said I was “ignorant” and lack “humility”. I equated that with you calling me stupid, and for that I apologize.

Thank you for taking the time to counter each and every one of my sentences. I see now how disrespectful I was being and would like nothing more than to just begin reading so that I may be more intellectually on par with you. I think I’ll start with Pascal.

I ask that you please do not reply to this thread, for I am done with it. It served the purpose I needed it for and all you will do is get my fragile female mind worked up again.

Thank you sir (or madam). I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and your time. 👍
If you do stop back here, consider this: Given that you’ve reached your conclusions about the possibility of God on your own remit, this suggests your critical thinking skills are pretty sound. Being accused by a theist of poor critical thinking skills is always cause for a snigger.
 
LOL! I think you should re-read the OP. He came to a Catholic forum for advice and posted the following:
At this point in my life, my faith is completely illusory. I ask that you please don’t judge; what I’d like is some references to either books or websites for people with doubts like mine. When I say doubts, I mean serious ones, e.g. the flying spaghetti monster and the Catholic God are on equal playing field in my mind. I’ve used my own judgment to come to this conclusion, so
I need resources that are prepared to counter my objections. **

I really don’t want to give up my religion, but honestly at this point, it would be a facade for the sake of my family. So any suggestions on resources?
So, yeah; your suggestion doesn’t really seem to fit the bill. Maybe you’ve successfully delved beneath the text and uncovered the unconscious desire the OP has, but probably you’re just projecting your own desire/need for self-affirmation, in spite of the evidence against you.
Yes - it seems clear to me that the OP wants her religion back more to appease her family and avoid acrimony than because she misses anything about her former beliefs. Maybe I’m wrong, but who are you to judge?

It seems that you are unable to resist the temptation for a sarcastic snipe at me when I try to help. You are a true exemplar for Catholic Christianity.
 
Yes - it seems clear to me that the OP wants her religion back more to appease her family and avoid acrimony than because she misses anything about her former beliefs. Maybe I’m wrong, but who are you to judge?

It seems that you are unable to resist the temptation for a sarcastic snipe at me when I try to help. You are a true exemplar for Catholic Christianity.
That was no sarcastic snipe and it’s too bad you choose to dismiss it as such. I suggest you read it again and consider this time whether it might be true (that would be the open-minded thing to do 👍).

And who am I to judge? I’m a guy who knows who to read and is able to respond to what he reads in a reasonable, rational way, instead of resorting to stupid ad hominems. How bout you??
 
If you do stop back here, consider this: Given that you’ve reached your conclusions about the possibility of God on your own remit, this suggests your critical thinking skills are pretty sound.
Speaking of critical thinking skills, how does that even begin to make sense??
Being accused by a theist of poor critical thinking skills is always cause for a snigger.
…if you happen to be a closed-minded bigot who arbitrarily ignores arguments when he disagrees with the conclusions of the person making them. :rolleyes:
 
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