Suicide and Hell

[philial]

Hey,CC - take your sad little ego and leave the stage. There are more impoprtant things that your doubts and attempts at intellectualism!

 

[CopticChristian]

Hey,CC - take your sad little ego and leave the stage. There are more impoprtant things that your doubts and attempts at intellectualism!

I am not sad. I do not believe in Freud and avoid the use of ego. I am not on a stage. Your statement that follows does not read well and I do not understand it. It would appear that you did not like my post. I can understand that and appreciate your reading it.

 

[Madeline616]

Or does even questioning culpability mean we are. Maybe it’s the opposite of being crazy. Crazy people don’t know they’re crazy, so people who don’t think they’re culpable are?

Scout, I understand your question here and I think the following quote from Jimmy Akin may be helpful. Questioning culpability necessitates reflection. Whether it is adequate reflection, and whether that reflection is mitigated by severe despair, emotional distress, or mental illness, only God can say

One of the things that can hinder adequate knowledge, though, is a lack of what the reader terms “sufficient reflection.” It may be that we do know that an act is gravely wrong and yet we haven’t reflected on it sufficiently to realize this at the particular moment.

This Jimmy Akin quote comes from this thread:

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/12/assessing_morta.html

It would be a sin against God’s mercy to ever presume to know the limits of His mercy. I don’t think we can reason out or figure out the answer to this culpability question. God is perfectly merciful and perfectly just, and only He is able to read the heart of the person who commits grave sin.

 

[Scout]

Thanks for all the replies and thoughts on this subject. I appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Some were more helpful than others, but thought-provoking none the less.

I especially appreciate the link to the article by Jimmy Akin. It has been most helpful.

If anyone has any further thoughts or comments, please don’t hesitate to post. This was just a thank-you to those who have already posted.

I’m still working this out in my head and heart, and it’s been difficult, but you all have given me some things to think about and consider and I appreciate that.

Thanks again.
Scout :tiphat:

 

[PrayRosary]

God is the only one with the answer to this very hard question. We should pray for the salvation of all those who have died be it from suicide, illness, natural, or accidental death.

We must try our best to follow the Church’s teachings about mortal sin. There is a lot of help out there for those thinking of suicide.

We all probably know of somebody who has commited suicide. Lets take a moment to pray for them.

Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

 

[Madeline616]

Hi Scout,

Glad the Akin link was helpful. I did want to add that I sincerely hope it is not you who is personally wrestling with the possibility of suicide. You are in my prayers.

I believe that if someone were to reflect, discuss, and contemplate culpability (such as you have done on the forum), it would mean that that person has more than sufficiently reflected and would be culpable to a much greater extent than someone who commits grave sin in the “hear of the moment.”

PM me if you need to chat, friend

 

[exnihilo]

This is a very topical question since I know someone who just recently committed suicide. My reaction was one of tremendous sadness but also anger. They left behind a spouse and children. It is hard not to feel anger knowing the suffering the family endures. It is hard not to feel anger since the person was a Christian and despaired.

In talking with people about this most folks seemed to say something like ‘you never know what kind of grief a person experiences’. This is certainly true. But we have to be careful. If we are going to say that all suicide is excusable because a person is suffering from mental problems (some even say it is never a rational choice to take your life thus all suicide is forgivable) then we are ignoring free will and advocating determinism. We have to be responsible for the good and bad things we do. Certainly culpability is something that is not always clear as it depends on many things including knoweldge, intent, and possibly mental state. But if we go so far as to excuse all suicide we are on dangerous ground. I dont even think we could since I’ve heard of people in great physical pain ending their life. You could say the pain drove them mad but then you are presuming that all suicide is due to a mental defect.

The Catholic Encylopedia says this

This suicide rate obviously includes suicides attributable to mental illness, but we cannot accept the opinion of a large number of physicians, moralists, and jurists who, led into error by a false philosophy, lay it down as a general rule that suicide is always due to insanity, so great is the horror which this act inspires in every man of sane mind. The Church rejects this theory and, while admitting exceptions, considers that those unfortunates who, impelled by despair or anger, attempt their life often act through malice or culpable cowardice. In fact, despair and anger are not as a general thing movements of the soul which it is impossible to resist, especially if one does not neglect the helps offered by religion, confidence in God, belief in the immortality of the soul and in a future life of rewards and punishments.

Suicide

As to how God judges this I dont really know. I think suicide is very often a sin. We are all sinners so God certainly accepts sinners. Whether this sin condemns one to Hell I dont know. I have fervently prayed for the soul of the person I know.

 

[Scout]

Hi Scout,

Glad the Akin link was helpful. I did want to add that I sincerely hope it is not you who is personally wrestling with the possibility of suicide. You are in my prayers.

Madeline, thank you for your respnse. Although I have been in a deep depression off and on for several days (I have bipolar disorder), and the thoughts have popped up in my mind, I would never do it. I have three children, one with special needs, and I would never consider abandoning them.

Plus, my mother tried to commit suicide in front of me when I was twelve, and I know what it feels like to be on the other side of the question.

I think I posted the thread in a short moment of weakness, I know it’s never an option. I think I just wanted to hear what others’ think about the subject.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Scout]

This is a very topical question since I know someone who just recently committed suicide. My reaction was one of tremendous sadness but also anger. They left behind a spouse and children. It is hard not to feel anger knowing the suffering the family endures. It is hard not to feel anger since the person was a Christian and despaired.

In talking with people about this most folks seemed to say something like ‘you never know what kind of grief a person experiences’. This is certainly true. But we have to be careful. If we are going to say that all suicide is excusable because a person is suffering from mental problems (some even say it is never a rational choice to take your life thus all suicide is forgivable) then we are ignoring free will and advocating determinism. We have to be responsible for the good and bad things we do. Certainly culpability is something that is not always clear as it depends on many things including knoweldge, intent, and possibly mental state. But if we go so far as to excuse all suicide we are on dangerous ground. I dont even think we could since I’ve heard of people in great physical pain ending their life. You could say the pain drove them mad but then you are presuming that all suicide is due to a mental defect.

The Catholic Encylopedia says this

Suicide

As to how God judges this I dont really know. I think suicide is very often a sin. We are all sinners so God certainly accepts sinners. Whether this sin condemns one to Hell I dont know. I have fervently prayed for the soul of the person I know.

I think this is a very intelligent response.

First, I agree that we can’t chalk all suicides up to mental illness. This is a poor analagy, but that would be like saying all car wrecks are due to drunk driving. Some are, some aren’t.

Second, I think that many times we do forget how angry suicide can make those left behind feel. True, there is a lot of pain, but I remember very well the feeling of anger I felt when my mom tried to commit suicide when I was twelve, and at the house (I was in the living room, she was in her bedroom, and all of the sudden an ambulance showed up at the house). Not only was I hurt and worried about my mother, but I was angry that she would do something like that, and almost right in front of her child.

Maybe it’s just one of those situations that, since we don’t know for sure what God will do, we should just say “better safe than sorry” and be dedicated, instead, as prayer warriors for those who are considering it, those who have, and the families of both.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Madeline616]

That’s a relief, my friend. We endure for the Lord and for those we love, with Christ as the ultimate example of enduring suffering out of love.

 

[CopticChristian]

Do people who commit suicide automatically go to hell?

And if not, will they be punished for hurting their loved ones when they might’ve been mentally ill in some way at the time?

Just wondering. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

Scout

This was a great question that I believe Madeline616 gave the best answer. In consideration that there exist many who have answered that have experience with or are troubled by depression and the like I wonder is there much more to say.

Suicide is tragic and could make for discussion that could go on and on.

Hell is not for us to decide and is an eternity.

Mixing the two, in particular with the personal experiences, may cause more harm than good.