Suicide for a just cause?

[MamaGeek]

Petertherock:

My dad was in intelligence in the Air Force. They were issued “suicide pills” if they were ever taken prisoner by the enemy. This would not be a sin since if the enemy caught my dad or anyone else in intelligence they would torture him until he broke and spilled the beans and endangered National Security or got fellow soldiers killed. Plus, after they got the information from him they would kill him anyway.

No, it would still be a sin. It is a failure of trust in God to help you in such a situation. It is submission to despair, a mortal sin. Information gathered from such torture is highly unreliable. The best training for a soldier is not, “kill yourself,” but “lie, lie, lie” under torture until you yourself cannot even recall the correct information. While killing yourself in such a situation is a sin, lying to your torturers is not. Giving them false information may even save the lives of your fellows.

 

[MamaGeek]

Petertherock:

Obviously you have no concept of the military or what other countries do to our soldiers. They kidnap intelligence officers or other troops who have information on stuff like where troops are, plans of attack, etc and they torture these people until they spill the beans. Thus the military issues cyanide pills so once you are captured you are told to give your life for your country.

Do you not think that God would strengthen you? Are there not myriad Christian martyrs who died rather than disobey God? Did God abandon them, or did he give them the grace and strength to endure until the end? A soldier who dies with the name of Jesus on his lips will receive the grace of God to protect what God wants protected. Do you really believe that if an intelligence officer was captured, and appealed in prayer to God for help in protecting the information he knew, that God would forsake him? Cyanide pills are a loss of hope, a submission to despair, a betrayal of trust in God. Even before Jesus was born, God inspired martyrs with the strength and grace to undergo horrible tortures for His name (see 2 Macc 6:18–7:42). The story of the mother and her seven sons shows how it is wrong to sin even to save the lives of one’s own family!

Here’s a part of the story:

It also happened that seven brothers with their mother were arrested and tortured with whips and scourges by the king, to force them to eat pork in violation of God’s law…he commanded his executioners to cut out the tongue of the one who had spoken for the others, to scalp him and cut off his hands and feet, while the rest of his brothers and his mother looked on. When he was completely maimed but still breathing, the king ordered them to carry him to the fire and fry him. As a cloud of smoke spread from the pan, the brothers and their mother encouraged one another to die bravely…When the first brother had died in this manner, they brought the second to be made sport of. After tearing off the skin and hair of his head, they asked him, “Will you eat the pork rather than have your body tortured limb by limb?” Answering in the language of his forefathers, he said, “Never!” So he too in turn suffered the same tortures as the first…Most admirable and worthy of everlasting remembrance was the mother, who saw her seven sons perish in a single day, yet bore it courageously because of her hope in the Lord.

 

[Petertherock]

MichaelTDoyle:

It is not permissible to do evil to achieve good. You do not have the “right” to suicide; you did not create yourself whatever the circumstances.

I know that’s a tough line, but eithanasia is continually being presented as an option these days. I don’t want to be a “burden”, yet it is the burden’s of society wherein most oof us have an opportunity for merit, to show God’s love among the weakest.

Then what about firefighters? Police officers? I guess it’s wrong for someone to enter a burning building to save lives. I guess it’s wrong for someone to enter a building where an armed criminal is holding people hostage. And all this time I thought Jesus said “There is no greater love then to lay down your life for someone.” Guess I was wrong!

 

[Genesis315]

Petertherock:

Then what about firefighters? Police officers? I guess it’s wrong for someone to enter a burning building to save lives. I guess it’s wrong for someone to enter a building where an armed criminal is holding people hostage. And all this time I thought Jesus said “There is no greater love then to lay down your life for someone.” Guess I was wrong!

What you are describing is not suicide. The firefighters intent is not to kill himself. His intent is to save someone. Dying while trying to save someone or even taking a bullet for someone, is not the same as killing yourself to escape your problems.

 

[Celeste88]

What if you have cancer or some other horrible disease and you are in intractable pain that drives you to commit suicide? Is suicide in that instance a sin?

 

[MamaGeek]

Celeste88:

What if you have cancer or some other horrible disease and you are in intractable pain that drives you to commit suicide? Is suicide in that instance a sin?

Yes, yes, most definitely, yes. It is permissable to take enough pain medication to ease your pain, even if it has a possible side effect of shortening what time you have remaining, but it is not permissable to directly take any life just to end suffering.

 

[Promotor_Fidei]

Celeste88:

What if you have cancer or some other horrible disease and you are in intractable pain that drives you to commit suicide? Is suicide in that instance a sin?

Good question. I know of people with terminal-level pain, but a non-terminal condition. Pain medications won’t relieve them… not opiates nor anti-convulsants… etc. Nerve blocks only delay it. Some may live for decades that way, confined to a hospital bed, screaming in pain (according to my previous GP)

I know our theology teaches clearly that suicide in that case is wrong, and I won’t argue that. But… golly. What a cross to bear.

I only speak of this because I’ve been diagnosed with that condition. I’m in the early stages. If a particular operation doesn’t work for me, I’ll eventually be in their shoes.

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

Promotor Fidei:

Good question. I know of people with terminal-level pain, but a non-terminal condition. Pain medications won’t relieve them… not opiates nor anti-convulsants… etc. Nerve blocks only delay it. Some may live for decades that way, confined to a hospital bed, screaming in pain (according to my previous GP)

I know our theology teaches clearly that suicide in that case is wrong, and I won’t argue that. But… golly. What a cross to bear.

I only speak of this because I’ve been diagnosed with that condition. I’m in the early stages. If a particular operation doesn’t work for me, I’ll eventually be in their shoes.

I’ll definitely keep you in my prayers; that’s certainly a difficult cross to bear.

Another thing to consider about choosing suicide rather than undergoing torture for fear of revealing information is that there could be other options. I know of a man who was caught and tortured in the hopes that he would betray his friends. Rather than betray them, he cut out his own tongue.

 

[Pug]

Grace and Glory:

Rather than betray them, he cut out his own tongue.

Hmm. I’m not sure that the Church would say self-mutilation would be okay either. Of course, anything done under such extreme pressure as torture would make diminished culpability a consideration.