Suicide in Judaism

[Bezant]

I have heard, unless I’m mistaken, that the grave of a person who committed suicide is marked-off or enclosed from other graves in a Jewish cemetary. If this is true, why is this so?

 

[followingtheway]

This happened in Christian (including Catholic) gravesites. I know the reason why Christian cemeteries did this to suicide victims is because it was thought suicide was a sin. The unforgivable sin, since you can’t repent for it, since you’re dead. It was thought suicide victims go to hell without questioning.

But as why this happens in Jewish gravesites in beyond me.

 

[Sam_777]

It was thought suicide victims go to hell without questioning.

Interesting!, I didn’t know that before!, does the CCC has anything on that?

But what about the purgatory, why not assuming that those people who committed suicide would spend much time in purgatory!, why we judged on them that they will go to hell without questioning !!!

 

[1AugustSon7]

Suicide is the ape-Sacrament, as in mockery. Suicide doesn’t just violate the Commandment not to kill, and remove the opportunity for forgiveness, but it denies a whole host of truths and realities. For example, it denies the power of God, His forgiveness (if it is done for reasons of guilt) and His grace. It violates nature, which abhors the thought of pain and death instinctively. It denies in essense what Christ accomplished for us on the Cross. It imitates in example what Judas did.

As to the rationale in Judaism for setting aside suicides (assuming this is true) in graveyards, I can but speculate.

 

[Sam_777]

For example, it denies the power of God, His forgiveness (if it is done for reasons of guilt) and His grace. It violates nature, which abhors the thought of pain and death instinctively. It denies in essense what Christ accomplished for us on the Cross.

Interesting analysis…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

 

[AlltheRoses]

I have heard, unless I’m mistaken, that the grave of a person who committed suicide is marked-off or enclosed from other graves in a Jewish cemetary. If this is true, why is this so?

I have never heard this about Jewish cemeteries, but I don’t know much about them. I’ve only been in a Jewish cemetery once, and I didn’t notice any marked-off or enclosed graves, but, then again, I was hardly exploring, and was just there for a burial of an elderly neighbor who was like a third grandfather to me.

I know that, in Christianity, suicides are often not allowed to be buried in hallowed ground, because killing yourself is a violation of the Commandment against murder which the suicide will not have the opportunity to repent, and I suppose that Jewish people also might perceive suicide as a violation of the Commandment against murder that the suicide wouldn’t have a chance to atone for. Perhaps, on a related note, they feel like a suicide is somehow unclean, and that it would profane the cemetery. I think, in Judaism, there is a big focus on ritual cleanliness and uncleanliness, and it wouldn’t surprise me if that was involved in their burial rites as well. This, of course, is all speculation, and I’m not even sure that Jewish cemeteries do separate suicides.

 

[Bezant]

This happened in Christian (including Catholic) gravesites. I know the reason why Christian cemeteries did this to suicide victims is because it was thought suicide was a sin. The unforgivable sin, since you can’t repent for it, since you’re dead. It was thought suicide victims go to hell without questioning.

But as why this happens in Jewish gravesites in beyond me.

Yes, I remember this was discussed in the film Kingdom of Heaven but I’ve never read about it before, so I’m not sure how prevalent this idea was, but it’s disappointing that people thought that way.

 

[Bezant]

I have never heard this about Jewish cemeteries, but I don’t know much about them. I’ve only been in a Jewish cemetery once, and I didn’t notice any marked-off or enclosed graves, but, then again, I was hardly exploring, and was just there for a burial of an elderly neighbor who was like a third grandfather to me.

I know that, in Christianity, suicides are often not allowed to be buried in hallowed ground, because killing yourself is a violation of the Commandment against murder which the suicide will not have the opportunity to repent, and I suppose that Jewish people also might perceive suicide as a violation of the Commandment against murder that the suicide wouldn’t have a chance to atone for. Perhaps, on a related note, they feel like a suicide is somehow unclean, and that it would profane the cemetery. I think, in Judaism, there is a big focus on ritual cleanliness and uncleanliness, and it wouldn’t surprise me if that was involved in their burial rites as well. This, of course, is all speculation, and I’m not even sure that Jewish cemeteries do separate suicides.

Thank-you, Alltheroses. I think that this is the custom of only traditional Jewish cemeteries. But I’m dubious that ritual purity would have to do with it, as any death is ritually impure. I’m not sure that atonement has to do with it either, because sin and atonement as it’s been explained to me is rather different in Judaism, and the situation might be just as problematic for a murderer.

 

[followingtheway]

Yes, I remember this was discussed in the film Kingdom of Heaven but I’ve never read about it before, so I’m not sure how prevalent this idea was, but it’s disappointing that people thought that way.

Very. This idea is still very common. I did a poll called “Is suicide a sin?” Yes was the majority, no was the minority. Only God knows (my position) was in between.

But what about the purgatory, why not assuming that those people who committed suicide would spend much time in purgatory!, why we judged on them that they will go to hell without questioning !!!

An excellent idea. But Purgatory is an exclusively Catholic doctrine and thus Non-Catholic Christians wouldn’t be able to believe suicide victims go to Purgatory, because they don’t believe in Purgatory in the first place. Another reason is because suicide is considered a form of breaking “thou shalt not kill” for that Christians believe it’s a sin.

In Christianity, it’s believed their’s more than one way to break a commandment such as rape and prostitution are ways of breaking “thou shalt not commit adultery” and witchcraft and superstitions are ways of breaking “thou shalt not have any other gods before me”

 

[Sam_777]

Does the CCC has anything on suicide in Catholicism?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Does the CCC has anything on suicide in Catholicism?

There’s a bit of a bottled apologetic on suicide at the following link

newapologia.com/catechism-suicide/

Personally I don’t think it does necessarily lead to Hell, but may still end result in Purgatory. My old pastor’s eldest son committed suicide in 1983 as he had very difficult manic depression. I think he’s in Purgatory myself, and not in hell. I don’t know what the family thinks, but I don’t think he’s lost.

I’ve got another reason for believing that. The same old pastor once predicted "I think you’ll be doing a cleaning job. You won’t be doing it for long, and you won’t like it much, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost."

Now he probably said that in 1991, as he died in 1992. At the time I thought it was silly, even though I knew how accurate he was. But in 2006 I did a cleaning job for a short while, didn’t like it much, and heard about a ghost. The “ghost” was apparently a suicide dating back to the 1960’s and I think my role (I mean if the “Lord wanted me to hear about (it)”, then there had to be a reason), was to get a mass said for him.

In order for this prediction to happen in full, I first had to lose my government job of the time (which he predicted) so that I’d do a job I didn’t really want, become Catholic (which he predicted, and without which I’d never have gotten a mass said), take up cleaning for a short time and not like it (as he predicted), would have to hear about a ghost at a certain location (which he predicted), and finally I had to chance upon an Australian priest on this very forum who just happened to be located about 500 metres from the store where this ghost is located. I don’t think there’s very many Australian priests on this forum, let alone one so conveniently located so my old pastor’s prediction / prophecy could come true.

And it all happened to come together. So if I had to get a mass said for this suicide, it would hardly be to send him to hell, would it? So I think in his case, being bound the store for 40 or so years (pretty boring if you ask me) was part of his purgatory.

Hence I don’t think suicide is the “unforgiveable sin”. Mind you he may have been an otherwise very good man, whose other sins were not great. I wouldn’t place a bet on Hitler’s, Himmler’s, Goering’s or Goebbel’s chances of being forgiven their suicides.

 

[Sam_777]

This is reference to member Bob Crowley post above. Do you believe committing a suicide would lead the person to be a Ghost trapped in this earth as part of that person punishment (aka part of purgatory)?

 

[TypesAndShadows]

Does the CCC has anything on suicide in Catholicism?

Yes, it does:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. the Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

It comes under “Respect for Human Life”, regarding the 5th commandment: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM

Anyway, back to Judaism…

 

[Sam_777]

Thanks TypesAndShadows for the answer and link http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif.

However, do you believe committing a suicide would lead the person to be a Ghost trapped in this earth as part of that person punishment (aka part of purgatory)?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This is reference to member Bob Crowley post above. Do you believe committing a suicide would lead the person to be a Ghost trapped in this earth as part of that person punishment (aka part of purgatory)?

I’m the one who put the post there, and **in this particular case **I think it was part of his purgatory. What form it generally takes we just don’t know. That there was something there was not in doubt - the young bloke who told me the place was “haunted” said that one night when he was cleaning the store, all the stock just jumped off one complete set of shelves, and landed on the floor. He didn’t like being there at night.

That was my experience, beginning with the old pastor’s quote, and finishing with an email exchange with an Australian priest I happened to chance upon within this forum, and who was located quite close to the store in question. Too close for coincidence.

I’ve also stated the night my father died, he appeared in my room. He looked like a ghost in that I could see him, but I could also see through him. So I suspect that when we die, we initially look something like a “ghost”. The glorified body that is a promised for those who enter heaven must be a later addition so to speak.

We should not be too surprised - we all looked like a single cell at one stage.

 

[MorningSong51]

I have heard, unless I’m mistaken, that the grave of a person who committed suicide is marked-off or enclosed from other graves in a Jewish cemetary. If this is true, why is this so?

That’s a good question and from what I read, it is considered (or was considered, due to the state of mind of the person) a criminal act to take one’s life. However, when you read the book of Tobias, he is asking God to receive his soul, or to take back the life that God gave. There is such a difference between taking one’s life and giving one’s life back to God. The passage on taking a life, I think, is in the passage with Noah, “6 “Whoever sheds human blood,by humans shall their blood be shed;for in the image of God has God made mankind.” and also relates to this passage, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil”…the Psalm indicates that God is author/and creator of all things and that His Spirit in within us.

askmoses.com/en/article/165,1311/Can-a-suicide-victim-be-buried-in-a-Jewish-cemetery.html

We do not bury one who has committed suicide in a cemetery together with other Jews; instead he or she is buried in an area of the cemetery removed from all others. Nor do we sit shivah for such a person.

The rule is that we do not bury a Rasha (wicked person) together with everyone else, or sit Shivah for him/her. However, under normal circumstances we never assume that a person is a Rasha, because even if we are certain that this person was guilty of many heinous sins, the possibility (or probability) exists that the person repented before passing away. After all, it only takes a single virtuous thought to do Teshuvah (repentance) and be transformed from a Rasha into a Tzaddik (righteous person).

A person who commits suicide, on the other hand, is defying G-d until the very last moment. G-d placed every person onto this world with a mission and a purpose, and completing this goal in the years which G-d has allotted is ultimately in the person’s best interest. Suicide is saying that the life that G-d has given isn’t worth living.

If, however, the person who committed suicide did not die instantly, we assume that the person repented in the last moments of life and we bury him/her in the cemetery and the relatives do sit shivah.

The strict law also does not apply if the suicide is a result of a mental or emotional illness (which is the case in the vast majority of suicides). In fact, there are those Halachic authorities that hold that as long as no one actually saw the person committing suicide in cold blood, we assume that the person had a nervous breakdown, and was therefore not responsible for his/her actions.

Therefore, although the law states that one does not bury a person who has committed suicide in the cemetery, and we also don’t sit shivah for this person, practically speaking it is very rare to find a case which conforms with the abovementioned stipulations.

 

[MorningSong51]

another good article to read:

The berakhah on Creation is the longest, encompassing fragments of ancient poetic litanies and a depiction of the acclamations of the angelic choruses. It is also one of the places where the hand of the rabbis in shaping the liturgy out of biblical materials is most conspicu*ous. Take the opening statement of the berakhah:

“Praised be You, O Lord our God, King of the universe, Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates all things.” myjewishlearning.com/texts/Liturgy_and_Prayers/Siddur_Prayer_Book/Shema/Blessings_Around_Shema.shtml

The emphasizes is on this verse: “God is imaged as the creator of life and as the endower of life with meaning through the Torah. Now, in the third and final berakhah, God is presented as the protector of the community that keeps faith with the Torah” (pp. 79-81).

The next article:

Suicide in Jewish Tradition and Literature
Suicide is deemed a grave sin, yet Jewish legal authorities are alert to mitigating circumstances.

 

[MorningSong51]

Thanks TypesAndShadows for the answer and link http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif.

However, do you believe committing a suicide would lead the person to be a Ghost trapped in this earth as part of that person punishment (aka part of purgatory)?

Good question? Again, reading about this: There is also a deep spiritual consequence to suicide.

When a person commits suicide, the soul has nowhere to go. It cannot return to the body, because the body is destroyed. And it is not let in to any of the soul worlds, because its time has not come. This state of limbo is very painful. A person may commit suicide because he wants to escape, but in reality he is getting a far worse situation.

judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_burysuicide.htm

It answers a question on a N.T verse.

 

[Sam_777]

When a person commits suicide, the soul has nowhere to go. It cannot return to the body, because the body is destroyed. And it is not let in to any of the soul worlds, because its time has not come. This state of limbo is very painful. A person may commit suicide because he wants to escape, but in reality he is getting a far worse situation.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif An excellent link, thank you “MorningSong51”, however, if that view by Rabbi “Shraga Simmons” is shared by a Catholic Priest then it would explain the mystery of Ghosts and hunted homes we hear from time to time. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon3.gif

 

[MorningSong51]

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif An excellent link, thank you “MorningSong51”, however, if that view by Rabbi “Shraga Simmons” is shared by a Catholic Priest then it would explain the mystery of Ghosts and hunted homes we hear from time to time. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon3.gif

I read Rabbi Simmons’s commentaries on Aish.com from time to time, he always has good insights: aish.com/ci/sam/48936292.html and aish.com/authors/48865357.html

There had been many questions about soul after death, for example: does the soul arise soon after death and since the body houses the soul - is the physical appearance of a person also reflected in the spiritual essences? More or less, are both the appearance the same? Again, this would be hard question to answer about Ghost. Personally, I’m not all that convinced about Ghosts, myself - because how can a person/spirit, under the heavenly realm, carry such latitude - as everything has a order or place in God’s realm. I know that there are good and evil spirit who would love to have a chance to be seen. What gives these “Ghost” more of a benefit?

When we read scripture,Christ gives us some details to the afterlife. Perhaps in the passage, we are dead to the world but we are alive and take a heavenly body - “25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.” Same notation you will find with Paul, 1Corinthians 15:44 “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual one.” However, the soul is also “light” - as Christ also tells us in scripture, “34 Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness.” The last verse might be a good hint - the body is full of darkness and changes form, like the fallen angels. Only with human being we have the ability to seek out God’s mercy and pardon, to be forgiven.

If the angels are not physical being but are beings of pure light then the angels would be considered the radiate or the pure light of God’s glory, (“wherever the angel appears the the divine Presence appears (Exodus Rabbah 32:9).” and also see Exodus 34:35, they saw that his face was radiant. Then Moses would put the veil back over his face until he went in to speak with the LORD; Transfiguration of Jesus, On the mountain, Jesus begins to shine with bright rays of light, the prophets Moses and Elijah appear next to him and he speaks with them.) Angels also have the ability to ascend and descend (see Jacob’s ladder, Genesis (28:10–19))

However, like man - who is made in the image and likeness of God, if an angel has lost their statue then doesn’t that pure light become full of darkness - as the fallen ones no longer have the light of God in them and their spiritual appearance (or make up) than would have to change along with their form, wouldn’t this be correct? What make humans so unique is that we have the opportunity to repent which then God allows us to erase our sins and also to return back to him, a very generous gift that God has given to us. It’s the ability to correct our actions and regain our relationship to him. The idea behind this, is the fact that we shine “like a light” before God and man, Matthew 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden”

With negative feelings and the person is overly full of guilt and grief - bringing the soul into a dark place, I have to ask the question, the soul then is full of darkness. What would bring the state of that soul back to life and if a person dies, and this is hard to determine - do those feelings remain on the soul and carry over to the afterlife?

Suicide and Burial in a Jewish Cemetery:

Meaning in life, however, is not determined by democracy. It is invested in us by G-d. Each of us (meaning you, me, anyone else we may be thinking of) is created in G-d’s image. G-d planted in each of us a unique potential to overcome exactly the combination of tests we alone are confronted with. Life, the Torah teaches, is all about meeting our own challenges. That is the true Jewish definition of success.

We are often challenged with pain, depression, disappointment and feelings of emptiness. It is how we battle these exclusive challenges that makes each of us uniquely who we are. Being rich or healthy or famous is not much of a test; it’s more like a lollypop. Greatness comes from facing challenges; not from the spoils of success.

The very things that may make a person depressed are, in fact, the very challenges that can give our lives real meaning. And this is the kind of real meaning the Jewish People have always been about (look at history).

Plus, we don’t own our bodies, Judaism teaches. They belong to G-d. At the end of our lives it is G-d Who takes them back.

I have a favorite verse that I read awhile back and in some way could apply to this topic discussion. The reason being, is that we really don’t know what’s behind everything that comes in and goes out of our lives - being good or bad. So the verse states, "
[The source of everything is ultimately Hashem and His divine attributes. Hashem is absolute good and mercy, so all decrees and judgments - even those perceived as evil - are rooted in sources of holiness and good, as it says, “**All bitter things have sweet roots” (Ramak, Tomer Devorah, ch. 4).