Suicide is more common in places with more guns

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Csakimavan said:
Not to mention that neither ropes, knives and cars were DESIGNED to KILL. Firearms, on the other hand… This distinction usually evades the gun enthusiasts
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You are making the point that since guns are only designed to kill that that is therefore less useful or important than the uses of knives, ropes, etc.
Yet killing is clearly necessary in many circumstances:
-An armed home invader
-A woman facing an assault by a man, who is genetically stronger
  • A poor family that depends on hunting to supply enough food for them
    So a tool specifically designed to kill actually is as necessary as a any other tool
 
And there’s this “Law of the Land”:

The Founding Fathers clearly enumerated the powers of the federal government in the Constitution. Among the powers granted in Article I, Section 8 are “the power to coin money, to regulate commerce, to declare war, to raise and maintain armed forces, and to establish a Post Office.”

Regulating firearms is not among the powers listed in the Constitution (though this has not always stopped lawmakers from regulating them). In fact, the document expressly forbids the federal government from doing so, stating in the Second Amendment that “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
 
And this:

The Constitution mandates that no one shall be “deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

Seizing the property of individuals who have been convicted of no crime violates this provision. Gun control advocates claim due process is not violated because people whose firearms are taken can appeal to courts to reclaim their property. However, as economist Raheem Williams has observed, “this backward process would imply that the Second Amendment is a privilege, not a right.”

Depriving individuals of a clearly established, constitutionally-guaranteed right in the absence of criminal charges or trial is an affront to civil liberties.
 
I have stated this previously.

Guns are designed to expel a projectile at a high rate of speed with accuracy and repeated reliability.

Whether or not they are used to kill is up to the person who is holding the gun.
 
jofa said:
And there’s this “Law of the Land”:

The Founding Fathers clearly enumerated the powers of the federal government in the Constitution. Among the powers granted in Article I, Section 8 are “the power to coin money, to regulate commerce, to declare war, to raise and maintain armed forces, and to establish a Post Office.”

Regulating firearms is not among the powers listed in the Constitution (though this has not always stopped lawmakers from regulating them). In fact, the document expressly forbids the federal government from doing so, stating in the Second Amendment that “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
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The Law of the Land also says the Supreme Court is the final arbiter as to what is Constitutional. And the Supreme Court has not ruled all gun restrictions to be unconstitutional. In fact it has ruled only a few of them unconstitutional, usually on very narrow grounds. The court has never affirmed that every restriction on gun use in unconstitutional. For example, the regulation on guns in a school.
jofa said:
And this:

The Constitution mandates that no one shall be “deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

Seizing the property of individuals who have been convicted of no crime violates this provision.
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In some cases, yes. In some cases no.
Gun control advocates claim due process is not violated because people whose firearms are taken can appeal to courts to reclaim their property.
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That is not their only argument.
However, as economist Raheem Williams has observed, “this backward process would imply that the Second Amendment is a privilege, not a right.”
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Economist Reheem Williams is entitled to his own opinion, as I am entitled to my own. What really matters is what the court rules.
 
How familiar are you with the 2A and its meaning.

What does well regulated mean in your opinion?

Who are the militia in your opinion?
 
My father committed suicide with a gun. His brother did the same 18 years later.
 
To be candid, it reads like agenda driven research.

First off, the title is wrong. Their research showed that suicide by gun was higher, not suicides in general in states with high gun ownership.

Second, their analysis shows gross bias. They compare the efficacy of using a gun with cutting or poison. But they ignored discussion the second most common method, suffocation. It probably doesn’t support their narrative since it too is a highly effective means of suicide. Often people who cut or overdose are signalling for help rather than committed to ending their lives, hence the lower completion numbers.

This is the same old stuff just repackaged, no new intelligence included. I could probably use their data to publish saying I could reduce suicide by hanging, by increasing gun ownership.
 
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There’s also some historical evidence you’ve overlooked:
Back when we had fewer gun laws and there were actually rifle clubs in public high schools, we didn’t have the problems of school shootings or the gun suicide rates. That suggests the problem cannot be the easy access to guns, don’t you think?
The problem isn’t guns, the problem is that society has banished God from our schools and we’ve turned away from Him in our society in general.
So the solution isn’t poorly enforced laws, the solution id prayer, fasting, evangelization, and conversion.
 
jofa said:
The problem isn’t guns, the problem is that society has banished God from our schools and we’ve turned away from Him in our society in general.
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the anti-gun group has an agenda.

gun laws were put on the books to keep guns out of certain hands
“Immediately after the Civil War, Southern states enacted Black Codes, designed to keep the ex-slaves in de facto slavery and submission. Mississippi’s provision was typical: No freedman ‘shall keep or carry fire-arms of any kind, or any ammunition’ without police permission. In areas where the Ku Klux Klan took control, ‘almost universally the first thing done was to disarm the negroes and leave them defenseless,’ recounted the civil rights attorney Albion Tourgée, who represented Plessy in Plessy v. Ferguson.”
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and the current anti-gun groups are still trying.
remember what Bloomberg claimed…
Bloomberg claimed that 95 percent of murders fall into a specific category: male, minority and between the ages of 15 and 25. Cities need to get guns out of this group’s hands and keep them alive, he said.
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it is about people control, nothing has changed.
 
upant said:
the anti-gun group has an agenda.

gun laws were put on the books to keep guns out of certain hands
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Am I missing your point here? I agree with these statements…
 
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nope, I was agreeing with you and adding a little history and opinion.
 
Suicide is more common in places with more guns?!?

What are you going to tell me next? The pope is Catholic?
 
Gun laws, as it turns out, do not affect the suicide rate. I’m offering one comparison. But you look at the links I provided, you can make your own comparisons. Murder rates are a far different story.

Let’s compare the U.S. and South Korea

U.S. stats
  • Gun policy: liberal
  • Suicide rate: 15.3 per 100,000
  • Global ranking: 27th
  • Intentional homicide rate: 5.3 per 100,000
  • Global ranking: 55th
South Korea stats
  • Gun policy: strict
  • Suicide rate: 26.9 per 100,000
  • Global ranking: 4th
  • Intentional homicide rate: 0.70 per 100,000
  • Global ranking: 150th
Sources

World suicide rates
https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/

South Korean gun laws
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/south-korea

U.S. gun laws
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

Intentional homicide rates


https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/murder-rate-by-country/

 
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Hume said:
Suicide is more common in places with more guns?!?
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That’s a claim not supported by the research

The research only claimed using a gun to do it was more common, not that doing it by any means was more common.

I’m pretty confident that suicide by car (real thing) is also more common in areas where they have more cars per person 😉
 
jofa said:
There’s also some historical evidence you’ve overlooked:
Back when we had fewer gun laws and there were actually rifle clubs in public high schools, we didn’t have the problems of school shootings or the gun suicide rates. That suggests the problem cannot be the easy access to guns, don’t you think?
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No, because the prevalence of guns was not the only thing that was different in those times. The study cited in the OP is better because it compares places at the same period in time. The issue of rurality also correlating with gun use was recognized and dealt with. But for your “study”, you would have to recognize and compensate for all the other characteristics that are different between the two time periods.
The problem isn’t guns, the problem is that society has banished God from our schools and we’ve turned away from Him in our society in general.
So the solution isn’t poorly enforced laws, the solution id prayer, fasting, evangelization, and conversion.
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That is indeed a problem, but that is also the problem behind many other social ills, such as murder, theft, reckless driving, extortion, fraud, and of course abortion. Since you seem to be reluctant to rely on governmental solutions to the problem of gun violence, including violence against one’s self, perhaps you are similarly inclined to avoid governmental solutions to this list of social ills as well.
 
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