Suicide vs. Sacrifice

[PeteZaHut]

How do you tell the difference between suicide and sacrificing your life for another or others? If the sacrifice involves doing something that would cause death unless a miracle takes place, is that automatically wrong by the end not justifying the means? (i.e. You can’t commit suicide in order to do some good?)

 

[Lancer]

PeteZaHutSuicide vs. Sacrifice
How do you tell the difference between suicide and sacrificing your life for another or others? If the sacrifice involves doing something that would cause death unless a miracle takes place, is that automatically wrong by the end not justifying the means? (i.e. You can’t commit suicide in order to do some good?)

Understandable thought…but you might be mixing “apples and oranges”’ so to speak. Catechism…sees it differently…there is no just cause in suicide…but in sacrificing your life for another…there is a just cause…**you are trying to give/will the the greatest good for the “other”…their life…which is a true definition of love…! **

**1808 Fortitude is the moral virtue that ensures firmness in difficulties and constancy in the pursuit of the good. It strengthens the resolve to resist temptations and to overcome obstacles in the moral life. The virtue of fortitude enables one to conquer fear, even fear of death, and to face trials and persecutions. It disposes one even to renounce and sacrifice his life in defense of a just cause. “The Lord is my strength and my song.” “In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Our Lord Jesus’ teaching is very clear:

John 15:13 (New International Version)

13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

Hope this is helpful.
Pax Christi

 

[PeteZ28]

Quite the opposite, to lay down ones life to save another is the ultimate act of selfless sacrifice, and is looked very highly upon by God. Was that not exactly the story of Jesus, to sacrifice oneself to save others?

 

[mchale]

The key distinction here is motivation.

Suicide is brought about by despair, either in one’s life or situation. It is an action where the end that is desired is the destruction of the self.

In contrast self sacrifice is brought about by the hope that one’s sacrifice will benefit others. One’s death is not a desired outcome, merely a probably necessary side effect (I say probably, because people have survived acts that probably should have killed them like throwing themselves on a grenade).

On other thought is the action taken. Even in cases of self sacrifice, I don’t think it is allowable to deliberately kill yourself.

–
Bill

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think one can apply the same thinking as for cases of double effect. One may risk ones life for a good cause. However,ones death must be incidental to achieving the good end; not a direct requirement for it.

For example one may interpose ones body between another and a grenade or bullet, even though that may result in ones death. It is not necessary that one die to protect the other; just a side effect of the saving action.

One the other hand one who is alive may not donate a vital organ to save the life of another. In this case one must die to provide the organ. Ones death is a necessary step in achieving the good end.

I am confident that the first paragraph, e\re double effect, reflects Church teaching. However,the examples are my creation. I think, and hope, that they are in accord with Church teaching, but I don’t have a source beyond my own reasoning.

 

[may_by_the_bay]

So i was searching for an answer today, and came across this thread. I figured it made mroe sense to expand on an existing thread, rather than make a new one.

In my Bible study recently, we discussed this topic, and came upon a question no one could answer. It’s one of those out there, one in a million scenarios, but it sparked an interesting debate.

What of someone who is immenently dying (as in, car accident, stab wound, something quickly fatal, and not a case of Euthenasia like in cancer or something) where someone knows factually, or at least to the full extent of human logic, that they are not going to survive. They are absolutely convinced, sue to the logical outcome of their circumstances, that they will not live. To hasten their death for the survival of another, what would that be?

The best example we could think of is hikers or campers who become injured and lost in the wilderness. One is extremely hurt, and suffering from infection, while the other is better off. They have very little food and water, and it’s been days with no signs of rescue. What moral culpability would the dying hiker face if he or she hastened to be what they 100% believed to be their imminent death, to provide more food, water, and another day of hope of rescue for the other? Keeping in mind, they truly thought for sure they would be dead soon, too soon for rescue.

None of us, our priest included, could decide. Do you think he would be guilty of suicide, or sacrifice? If suicide, do you think his will to allow his partner more time to be rescued and live at least dimished his culpability?

 

[may_by_the_bay]

Anyone?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Anyone?

See my May 25 post, just before yours. One may not do evil, e.g.speed death, to achieve good.

 

[may_by_the_bay]

See my May 25 post, just before yours. One may not do evil, e.g.speed death, to achieve good.

I love how nobody in either thread I made seems to have nay interest in answering my SECOND question.