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gurneyhalleck1
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Well I think there is an instinct to protect and defend priests which in some ways is healthy and noble but on the other hand, they’re human and are prone to being pharisaic as much as anyone in here, including me, and this situation was unfortunate. I know this priest because I’ve been to him as well…he’s not the greatest confessor, trust me. Cantankerous guy…I can only imagine Jesus not forgiving the adulterous woman because he just had a weird vibe about it? 
It isn’t totally clear whether this particular subject is on-topic , but I’ve also personally suffered disappointment in the Confessional on other matters (not always in my youth) , and it can be devastating for a time.
However, given the information on hand, and to provide a little more objectivity before anyone goes any further in (another thing St. Jean Vianney vigorously disagreed with) the knocking/comparing of priests :
The fact that the poster
but that this same woman was readily able to “confess” all of this to the poster - whom I will have to assume for the moment, is not a priest, suggests there is more than one problem here … and these other problems don’t appear to be confessor-oriented.
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RyanBlack
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I strongly disagree. Being devout is not a guarantee against serious mental illness or other circumstances that could impede the rightful exercise of the will.
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Lormar
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I knew someone would. You are entitled to your opinion.
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Phemie
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So is it your opinion that a devout Catholic can never be depressed?
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NeedImprovement
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I’m not really disagreeing with the “human weakness” part ; and there are similar incidents which arise from misunderstandings as well. And as I said in the earlier post, I have been on the receiving end in those situations myself. We aren’t really permitted to air too much of anyone’s personal laundry out, here at CAF ( I’m speaking of the woman you mentioned in your previous post here), so we probably won’t be able to go any deeper into it. Could I then at least make the point that priests are in need of our prayers. I really hope someone is praying for that cantankerous guy ; I know if I were him I would hope someone would be praying for me .Well I think there is an instinct to protect and defend priests which in some ways is healthy and noble but on the other hand, they’re human and are prone to being pharisaic as much as anyone in here, including me, and this situation was unfortunate. I know this priest because I’ve been to him as well…he’s not the greatest confessor, trust me. Cantankerous guy…I can only imagine Jesus not forgiving the adulterous woman because he just had a weird vibe about it?
On whether a truly devout Catholic would ever commit suicide, I’m not sure I understand the gist here. I echo Phemie’s question : Does the post mean to imply that a devout Catholic cannot suffer from mental illness ?
As long as psychiatry and psychology remain imperfect sciences , how can that claim be made ?
Here’s an earlier thread on Do you go to Hell if you commit suicide . In post #3 of that thread fellow member - *Church Militant *has provided links about the question to “Ask an Apologist” ; Father Serpa’s answers are to the point.
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gurneyhalleck1
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We ALL need prayers, no doubt, N.I.
I’m not really disagreeing with the “human weakness” part ; and there are similar incidents which arise from misunderstandings as well. And as I said in the earlier post, I have been on the receiving end in those situations myself. We aren’t really permitted to air too much of anyone’s personal laundry out, here at CAF ( I’m speaking of the woman you mentioned in your previous post here), so we probably won’t be able to go any deeper into it. Could I then at least make the point that priests are in need of our prayers. I really hope someone is praying for that cantankerous guy ; I know if I were him I would hope someone would be praying for me .
On whether a truly devout Catholic would ever commit suicide, I’m not sure I understand the gist here. I echo Phemie’s question : Does the post mean to imply that a devout Catholic cannot suffer from mental illness ?
As long as psychiatry and psychology remain imperfect sciences , how can that claim be made ?
Here’s an earlier thread on Do you go to Hell if you commit suicide . In post #3 of that thread fellow member - *Church Militant *has provided links about the question to “Ask an Apologist” ; Father Serpa’s answers are to the point.
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NeedImprovement
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One would, in all likelihood , find several other members entitled to expressing the identical opinion of RyanBlack at CAF Members Living With Mental Illness.
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giuseppeTO
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Suicide is a mortal sin. Whether the person who commits this sin merits heaven based on mitigating circumstances such as last minute perfect contrition or being ill to the extent that he is not culpable for the gravity of the sin can only be known by God and it is different in every case. This question cannot be answered “generally”. The only question that our faith answers for us is that we will not be saved if our soul is not in the state of sanctifying grace when we perish, regardless of the circumstances.
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Lormar
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Some of you people really grate on my nerves which is why my number of posts here at CA is so low. Is all some of you know how to do is to create mountains out of molehills and see words in a response that were never written or intended?
Please read, again, the initial post.
Where does anyone here see anything that says anything about mental illness??? He asked if a devout Catholic commits suicide will he go to heaven.
This is the post that I responded to.
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RyanBlack
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You stated in previous post that a devout Catholic would never commit suicide. For others to respond to that claim by asking if devout Catholics are immune to mental illnesses or other circumstances that are impediments and that might also lead to suicide is perfectly reasonable.
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DElias
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Not to deviate too much but what if a non-Catholic did so? Is purgatory a possibility?
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NeedImprovement
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If you use the King James version of the bible, some of the seven *Deutero-Canonical * or Apocryphal books may not be included.
Foremost among those books as they pertain to Purgatory, is the second Book of Machabees (this name varies in its spelling) ; Chapter 12 of the Douay Rheims version can be found/read here.
Usually that chapter is seen as our earliest reference from scripture pertaining to Purgatory, particularly verse 46 (chronicled as verse 45 in other versions of the bible) :
" It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. "
The period in which this book was written, pre-dates the time our Blessed Lord walked on the earth by roughly 175-160 years .
Some other references to Purgatory from the New Testament which are fairly straightforward :
- Matthew 5: 25-26
- 1 Corinthians 3:10-15
- Luke 12, 59
- 1 Pet. 3, 19
- We also have an inference drawn from Matt 12: 32 [DRV] … :
…by Pope St. Gregory the Great who reasoned [paraphrase] : The words of Christ in St. Matthew infer that sins (except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) can be forgiven in the next life. Now this cannot be done in heaven or hell, but only in another state which the Church calls Purgatory
Even if a non-Christian doesn’t believe in Heaven and Hell, they still exist, and our ultimate state shall still be with/in one or the other.
So also, if a non Catholic were to struggle with the concept of Purgatory - for whatever reasons , Purgatory would still exist.
All these things considered, if any soul (Catholic or non-Catholic) were repentant at the final moment of their earthly life for the act we’re speaking of and asked God for His Mercy, could God in his unspeakable love for each of us, refuse them ? If He doesn’t refuse them, Purgatory is a possibility. Matt 18:14
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HolyHandGrenade
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All mortal sin cuts off our path to heaven and there are three things that are required.
- The sin is a very grevious matter.
- The sinner has full knowledge.
- The sinners has given consent of the will.
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Veritas_Vincit
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I don’t think you can state that with certainty.
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NeedImprovement
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@ Lormar : I apologize for grating on your nerves. It wasn’t ever my intention. I don’t know if this explanation below will help or not . I hope it does.
I know a lot of people who suffer from mental illness . Some whom I met earlier in life ended up committing suicide.Of these,four people who were very close to me committed suicide. Of the four, two of them were constantly being hospitalized in an effort to protect them from their illnesses.
One of these two , when she wasn’t being seized by her illness put the rest of us (in our parish) to shame as far as being devout goes. She had a great devotion to our Blessed Mother, the Rosary, the Scapular and most importantly, the Eucharist.
Even when she was hospitalized she was evangelizing - telling the other patients about Jesus; about our Blessed Mother ; and people loved her and they loved to listen to her. Ofetn when she went for outpatient treatments, she went armed with prayer cards and blessed medals and usually returned with none. She was spreading devotion to St. Dymphna, St.Joseph .
In one sense Lormar, you are right there is a contradiction, but I think all of this misunderstanding lies in the inaccurate location of the contradiction. Mental illness is the contradiction, and I think anyone suffering from mental illness would be able to tell you that. They can see it themselves. But sin is also a contradiction. That shouldn’t mean that because we are all sinners, we can’t be devout.Unlike sin though, people do not choose to suffer from mental illness.
However that someone could suffer from mental illness and commit suicide sometimes happens. That someone can be devout and still suffer from mental illness happens. And that a devout person might commit suicide also happens.
This woman was more devout than most of us can ever hope to be. If her father, who is a close friend of mine, were to read your comments, that a “truly devout person would never commit suicide”, it would hurt him - because he knows differently… painfully differently.
I think that’s why I reacted as I did.
Again, sorry for grating on your nerves - it wasn’t my intention.
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