Summer attire at Mass

[LightBound]

I thanked them for their concern, told them I buy all my clothes in the women’s dept and moved on with my day. They meant well, they just have a different opinion of what is proper. I’m sure they didn’t like my short hair either.

Bless you for being so charitable. It’s sad they are telling others something is a sin when it most certainly is not.

 

[Cat]

It’s times like this when parent’s need to lay down the law. You don’t keep your child away from mass for the sake of shorts and a tank top, you make them put on something better, and bring them to Mass. You’re the parent, act like it.

Again, I ask the question–how? How exactly do you “make them put on something better and bring them to Mass”?

Do you physically force your immodestly-dressed child to remove his/her clothing and physically force them to put something else on?

I personally don’t see how you can do this. I think this could get you into trouble with the DCFS.

Or do you accomplish this by taking away various privileges, grounding them, etc?

Do you have an example from your family of a time when you did this? How did it work out?

BTW, I never worried about this with my daughters, but then, we were Protestant while they were growing up, so it was never an issue.

 

[severus68]

Would anyone like some for half time?

You learn fast enough to stay out of threads like this, since there’s no real point.

 

[maltmom]

Again, I ask the question–how? How exactly do you “make them put on something better and bring them to Mass”?

Do you physically force your immodestly-dressed child to remove his/her clothing and physically force them to put something else on?

I personally don’t see how you can do this. I think this could get you into trouble with the DCFS.

Or do you accomplish this by taking away various privileges, grounding them, etc?

Do you have an example from your family of a time when you did this? How did it work out?

BTW, I never worried about this with my daughters, but then, we were Protestant while they were growing up, so it was never an issue.

Hi Cat, did you see my suggestion in post #186. I bet you are thankful to not have teenagers anymore. That’s such a difficult time for them. Not a child anymore, but not yet an adult.

 

[TrueLight]

Again, I ask the question–how? How exactly do you “make them put on something better and bring them to Mass”?

Do you physically force your immodestly-dressed child to remove his/her clothing and physically force them to put something else on?

I personally don’t see how you can do this. I think this could get you into trouble with the DCFS.

Or do you accomplish this by taking away various privileges, grounding them, etc?

Do you have an example from your family of a time when you did this? How did it work out?

BTW, I never worried about this with my daughters, but then, we were Protestant while they were growing up, so it was never an issue.

if you raise your children to be obedient from a young age, they do as you say, when you speak to them with a serious tone, even if they complain.

I’m not saying this works for every child, but it has to do with how you raise them.

 

[severus68]

It has nothing to do with the fact that God knows what we look like.

If all the ladies that went to Mass dressed modestly (not expensively) they wouldn’t be a distraction to many males.

It is good to train children from when they are young about modesty, and the reason for it.

Perhaps those many males you speak of should focus on the Mass? I really think this is rather insulting to most men in church who would be interested in their own spirituality and focus on the Mass, not what everyone else wears.

 

[Cat]

A boy watches his father go to work dressed in nice pants and a nice dress shirt (no tie).

The same boy watches their father complain about going to Mass on Sunday, but his father concedes to go and dresses in old shorts and a t-shirt.

The boy complains to his Mom because she made the boy wear nice pants and shirt to Mass. He complained because from his point of view, Mass does not mean all that much because he watched his father dress nicer for work, than he did for Mass.

People discern something about us by viewing what we do–since they cannot know what we think!

Actions always speak louder than words, and certainly much louder than private thoughts of the heart!

**Like it or not, we are walking, living examples to all those around us. How we act, and how we dress–DOES MATTER. **

I grew up watching my father go to work in jeans and t-shirts. I think these days, there are many children who watch their fathers go to work in very casual clothing (that is, IF they have a father, and IF that father has a job!).

My husband, along with many thousands of others in his company, works from home, so his typical attire is definitely not a suit. In fact, even when he travels to the office, or goes out of town for business, he doesn’t wear a suit or tie. Many men don’t nowadays.

And when I go to work, I go to work in scrubs or similiar attire, as do most of the doctors and other health care professionals. In fact, many people go to work in a “uniform” of some type (e.g., all the people who work in fast food).

I don’t really see many people in my part of the U.S. dressing up for anything these days. Even going out to a nice restaurant can mean just wearing a clean shirt and clean jeans. My daughters still enjoy dressing up, but that doesn’t necessarily mean putting on a dress.

There are some people who enjoy dressing up, but it seems to me that many people avoid it and try to dress casually as much as possible, mainly for reasons of comfort.

So what is needed, IMO, is dress clothes that are comfortable and practical. So many dresses for women are too tight, or too loose, or too cold, or too hot, or show parts of the woman’s body that she would rather not show (e.g., arm flappers), or require extra underclothing (spanx, slip, certain kind of bra, etc.). Many are made of material that does not easily clean, and is ruined by a stain. Many require the wearing of panty hose or (shudder) hosiery with a garter belt, which for those of us with rolls around the belly, does not look the way it does in the Victoria’s Secret catalogue.

And at this time in fashion history, wearing a dress requires wearing dress shoes, and for me, this is simply not an option–because of the orthotics that I have to wear, I can’t find cute dressy shoes. I have a pair of othopedic shoes that are not tie shoes, and that’s what I wear whenever I have to wear a dress. I am acutely aware of how clumsy and clodhopperish these shoes look with my dress, and I feel like a fool and hate being seen in these shoes and in a dress, even a long dress. I feel so ugly! And to be very honest, if I were able to meet the President or some other dignitary, and a dress was required, I would probably, with great regret, say no, because I would be too ashamed of my feet and shoes.

At least when I’m wearing slacks, my clodhopperish shoes don’t look out of place.

You see, there are a lot of issues when it comes to dress. Dress is very personal for people in the U.S., and I think we should just leave each other alone when it comes to dress. Let it be between God and each person.

 

[severus68]

A boy watches his father go to work dressed in nice pants and a nice dress shirt (no tie).

The same boy watches their father complain about going to Mass on Sunday, but his father concedes to go and dresses in old shorts and a t-shirt.

The boy complains to his Mom because she made the boy wear nice pants and shirt to Mass. He complained because from his point of view, Mass does not mean all that much because he watched his father dress nicer for work, than he did for Mass.

People discern something about us by viewing what we do–since they cannot know what we think!

Actions always speak louder than words, and certainly much louder than private thoughts of the heart!

**Like it or not, we are walking, living examples to all those around us. How we act, and how we dress–DOES MATTER. **

Or, it could very well be that the boy did not want to dress up. Do small kids, especially boys, really care how they dress?

 

[severus68]

You don’t buy the teen immodest clothes, if they buy immodest clothes while out with their friends you throw the clothes away. If an outfit is inappropriate for church, but can be worn elsewhere then inform them that if an appropriate outfit isn’t worn to Mass then the inappropriate one will be thrown away…along with the removal of other privileges. The 1st step is to remember who is the parent and who is the child/teen.

Thank you. I have had a teen girl and I have no issue about how she dresses. I was just curious about what the poster said.

 

[severus68]

So you know for sure that Christ ‘received people as they are’? That if a woman approached Him wearing an immodest outfit He just smiled and chatted with her, and never even a “I do not condemn you, but go forth and sin no more?”

I was talking about what is inside a person. Christ was humble and taught humility. He was not about externals.

 

[severus68]

I hope you told those ignorant women that since you bought them in the women’s dept, they are most likely women’s clothes. They’ve been misinformed and led astray from common sense and historical fact by some person’s interpretation of an OT verse. Besides, as I stated more times than I care to count on CAF- when those verses were written- both genders in the Biblical lands were wearing robes and tunics- not pants! Pants that are made for women are women’s clothes…just like they have been for thousands of years in many cultures.

Perhaps we should all wear robes and sandals at Mass. There will be no more of these threads then, I hope.

 

[maltmom]

Perhaps we should all wear robes and sandals at Mass. There will be no more of these threads then, I hope.

Yes there would be…the wrong color robes, ties incorrectly and the wrong type of sandals. At least they would be modest.

 

[severus68]

I grew up watching my father go to work in jeans and t-shirts. I think these days, there are many children who watch their fathers go to work in very casual clothing (that is, IF they have a father, and IF that father has a job!).

My husband, along with many thousands of others in his company, works from home, so his typical attire is definitely not a suit. In fact, even when he travels to the office, or goes out of town for business, he doesn’t wear a suit or tie. Many men don’t nowadays.

And when I go to work, I go to work in scrubs or similiar attire, as do most of the doctors and other health care professionals. In fact, many people go to work in a “uniform” of some type (e.g., all the people who work in fast food).

I don’t really see many people in my part of the U.S. dressing up for anything these days. Even going out to a nice restaurant can mean just wearing a clean shirt and clean jeans. My daughters still enjoy dressing up, but that doesn’t necessarily mean putting on a dress.

There are some people who enjoy dressing up, but it seems to me that many people avoid it and try to dress casually as much as possible, mainly for reasons of comfort.

So what is needed, IMO, is dress clothes that are comfortable and practical. So many dresses for women are too tight, or too loose, or too cold, or too hot, or show parts of the woman’s body that she would rather not show (e.g., arm flappers), or require extra underclothing (spanx, slip, certain kind of bra, etc.). Many are made of material that does not easily clean, and is ruined by a stain. Many require the wearing of panty hose or (shudder) hosiery with a garter belt, which for those of us with rolls around the belly, does not look the way it does in the Victoria’s Secret catalogue.

And at this time in fashion history, wearing a dress requires wearing dress shoes, and for me, this is simply not an option–because of the orthotics that I have to wear, I can’t find cute dressy shoes. I have a pair of othopedic shoes that are not tie shoes, and that’s what I wear whenever I have to wear a dress. I am acutely aware of how clumsy and clodhopperish these shoes look with my dress, and I feel like a fool and hate being seen in these shoes and in a dress, even a long dress. I feel so ugly! And to be very honest, if I were able to meet the President or some other dignitary, and a dress was required, I would probably, with great regret, say no, because I would be too ashamed of my feet and shoes.

At least when I’m wearing slacks, my clodhopperish shoes don’t look out of place.

You see, there are a lot of issues when it comes to dress. Dress is very personal for people in the U.S., and I think we should just leave each other alone when it comes to dress. Let it be between God and each person.

Well said.

BTW, I think you should flash your feet and orthotic shoes. They are badges of courage.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Why are you saying “please” to me? Take your belief sytem to the Vatican, which was my source for proper dress, and see if they will change the rules about completely bare arms. Is the vatican dumb?

You apparently have created your own acceptable system of dress for mass, don’t mock the Vaticans rules.

First of all I did misread your post…I did not see the not in “not because it will turn someone on”…I apologize for that.

Someone after you posted that men would be distracted. There seems to be dispute about how much arm showing on a women is too much and how much distraction it creates,.,…I think that is dumb…and still stand by that.

The Vatican is its own rules…and yes I don’t agree with some of them. What difference it makes if you have a bare shoulder or not…as long as its not tight…no bare cleavage…no bra showing…etc.

I can disagree without mocking the Vatican rules:shrug:

 

[MissRose73]

How does your aunt force your sister’s kids to wear what she wants? They must be young. How do you force a teen?

Do you think you have the right or objectivity to tell others what videos they should listen to and insist they need to?

When my mother takes my niece and nephew to Mass, they are at her home and subject to her rules, and she has clothing there for them that is appropriate. They know better not to back talk to my mother (most of the time) and that they dare not complain. They are 10 and 12 years of age too.

 

[MissRose73]

if you raise your children to be obedient from a young age, they do as you say, when you speak to them with a serious tone, even if they complain.

I’m not saying this works for every child, but it has to do with how you raise them.

My mother was strict looking back on my childhood. Unfortunately, it did not completely rub off on my sister as she fell away from the church among other things. I knew better NOT to push my parents for immodest clothing, go to parties where I’d be tempted to drink and stuff etc as a teenager because I would get punished which had an effect on me unlike my sister who seemed to just shake it off back then.

Kids need to read more about the 4th Commandment plus understand it, and parents need to enforce it. Same with any other adults who deal with young people too.

 

[severus68]

First of all I did misread your post…I did not see the not in “not because it will turn someone on”…I apologize for that.

Someone after you posted that men would be distracted. There seems to be dispute about how much arm showing on a women is too much and how much distraction it creates,.,…I think that is dumb…and still stand by that.

The Vatican is its own rules…and yes I don’t agree with some of them. What difference it makes if you have a bare shoulder or not…as long as its not tight…no bare cleavage…no bra showing…etc.

I can disagree without mocking the Vatican rules:shrug:

I think the rules for St Peter’s etc are set in view of the large numbers who visit, including non- Catholics. It makes sense so there will be no arguing with the guards as to what is acceptable and what is not with tape measures taken out etc. These are rules set out in respect of private property and so we follow if we want to enter. I do not see anything wrong with baring arms for instance.

The rules have been relaxed over the years. A relative of mine visited a few years ago and then women had to cover their heads to enter

 

[Cat]

Hi Cat, did you see my suggestion in post #186. I bet you are thankful to not have teenagers anymore. That’s such a difficult time for them. Not a child anymore, but not yet an adult.

The idea of removing privileges is usually effective with teens. However, I still think that in many cases, the parents are standing there on Sunday morning (or Saturday evening) ready to leave for Mass, possibly with other children, and in comes the teen in their questionable outfit.

The parents do as you have suggested and say, “If you don’t go upstairs and change, you will lose the car keys this week.” (This probably really won’t happen because the teen has work or school obligations and needs the car to fulfil these, and mom or dad do not have the time to drive them and pick them up. The teenager knows this, and knows that the “punishment” won’t ever really happen.)

An argument begins, and the teenager starts crying and the other children wander away and start playing, and meanwhile, the clock is ticking and the driver is checking their watch and saying, “Let’s GO or we’ll be LATE and we won’t get a SEAT!”

And then the argument changes and the non-driving parent yells at the driver and says, “Well, if you don’t care if our child looks like a hoe, then fine, let’s go!”

Eventually the argument ends and the teen either flounces upstairs to change and then comes back downstairs with a look that is clearly not saintly, and the other kids giggle and the drive is very uncomfortable for the family, and the family is probably late for Mass and probably will stand in the back so no one will see the teenager anyway except all the other families who did the same scene back at their houses. And all of these families wonder if they really should receive Holy Communion or not after the argument and all the bad feelings between family members.

My point is, teenagers are smart. They know that if they come downstairs in their weird outfit right before it’s time to leave for Mass, the parents have very little recourse, because starting the big argument means being late for Mass or even missing Mass.

MY approach would be to let it pass . Do NOT give the teen any attention, and certainly don’t make an issue of it right before the Mass.

But AFTERWARDS, during the week, during a “calm” time, when the other children aren’t around and there is no “time crunch,” the parents should talk seriously and calmly with their teenager, and share with them the reasons why they believe that a certain standard of dress is necessary for Mass. Ask the teenager to come up with a reasonable standard of dress that covers all the body parts and is not offensive to others (no Marilyn Manson shirts, e.g.). Assure the teenager that “jumpers” and “long skirts” and “white blouses with long sleeves” and “orthopedic shoes” are not necessary. If jeans are OK with the parents, then make sure the teenager knows that. Same for shorts.

Best of all, offer to take the teenager shopping and buy a “Mass wardrobe” for them that includes a few outfits that would be acceptable to the parents and to the teenager that would be worn only for Mass.

That would be my approach, or I should say, the approach that both my husband and I would use.

But I’m not presuming that this would work. Many many teenagers go through very difficult times of rebellion,and DRESS is the least of the parents’ worries and fears for their teenagers. Many parents are afraid that their teens will not survive the teen years, and end up in prison or dead. These parents are more than willing to grab at the small straw and gladly allow their teenagers to go to church in a wild or revealing outfit if the teenager is actually willing to go to church with them. They are so happy that the teen is (1) with them and (2) in church that they really don’t care what their child is wearing. Like I said, any straw, any lifeline–these families will grab at it and cling for dear life. It’s a small pleasure in a family life that is filled with arguments, strife, tears, fears, and
constant upheaval.

I think rather than looking in judgementalism at these families, we need to fast and pray for them, because this is tough stuff, people. This is hard. Those of you who didn’t experience this with your children, be grateful. Sometimes parents who do everything right and have great parenting technique still lose their children to rebellion, so it’s not always because the parent was too permissive or incompetent.

As I said in an earlier post, this was never an issue with my daughters. But I must say that they never were interested in wearing slutty clothes. Perhaps because they were figure skaters and spent much of their leisure time at the rink wearing Mondors and those skimpy little practice dresses with spagetti straps (we have warm ice rinks in our city), they just weren’t interested in dressing down for church. Also, we live in Northern Illinois, so in the winter, it’s too cold to wear shorts and tanks, and in the summer, it’s still too cold because the air conditioning in most churches is pretty frosty!

 

[Dorothy]

Perhaps those many males you speak of should focus on the Mass? I really think this is rather insulting to most men in church who would be interested in their own spirituality and focus on the Mass, not what everyone else wears.

Of course, they should focus on the Mass.

It can be difficult with some of the immodest clothing worn at Mass.

 

[johnnyjones]

First of all I did misread your post…I did not see the not in “not because it will turn someone on”…I apologize for that.

Someone after you posted that men would be distracted. There seems to be dispute about how much arm showing on a women is too much and how much distraction it creates,.,…I think that is dumb…and still stand by that.

The Vatican is its own rules…and yes I don’t agree with some of them. What difference it makes if you have a bare shoulder or not…as long as its not tight…no bare cleavage…no bra showing…etc.

I can disagree without mocking the Vatican rules:shrug:

But since there seems to be such dispute over what is proper to wear to mass why wouldn’t the Vatican’s example satisfy you?. At least your honest and admit you think the Vatican’s attire code is dumb. They are providing an example of how to present oneself in presence of the blessed sacrament. The same blessed sacrament at your own church.

Is it possible the Vatican knows something you don’t about proper dress?