Sunday evening mass

[mlz]

I was wondering if it is alright to have Mass on Sunday night. It doesn’t have to be morning right? Also, a Saturday Mass must begin no sooner than when?
Thank you for answering!
mlz

 

[MarkThompson]

I was wondering if it is alright to have Mass on Sunday night. It doesn’t have to be morning right? Also, a Saturday Mass must begin no sooner than when?
Thank you for answering!
mlz

Yes, Mass on Sunday night is fine.

Mass on Saturday breaks down into two issues. First, there is what you’re asking about, which is often called “anticipated Mass” or (less correctly) “vigil Mass.” That’s Mass celebrated according to the Sunday liturgy, considered to fall on the liturgical day of Sunday, and which fulfills the obligation to attend Sunday Mass. The rule for that is that it must be in the evening. Although it has never been explicitly defined when that starts, many people accept 4:00 PM as a guideline.

But Saturday is itself a liturgical day, just like any other day of the week, and Mass is celebrated for it as well, just like on Monday, Tuesday, etc. When Mass is celebrated on Saturday before the evening, it follows the daily liturgy for Saturday and does not fulfill the Sunday obligation; when it is celebrated during the evening, it is considered to be a Sunday Mass.

Does that make sense?

 

[TheMc]

Yes, Mass on Sunday night is fine.

Mass on Saturday breaks down into two issues. First, there is what you’re asking about, which is often called “anticipated Mass” or (less correctly) “vigil Mass.” That’s Mass celebrated according to the Sunday liturgy, considered to fall on the liturgical day of Sunday, and which fulfills the obligation to attend Sunday Mass. The rule for that is that it must be in the evening. Although it has never been explicitly defined when that starts, many people accept 4:00 PM as a guideline.

But Saturday is itself a liturgical day, just like any other day of the week, and Mass is celebrated for it as well, just like on Monday, Tuesday, etc. When Mass is celebrated on Saturday before the evening, it follows the daily liturgy for Saturday and does not fulfill the Sunday obligation; when it is celebrated during the evening, it is considered to be a Sunday Mass.

Does that make sense?

One small twist.

If Christmas (a holy day of obligation) was on a Monday, could one foufill both a Sunday obligation and the christmas obligation by going to a Mass on Sunday night? I enjoy Mass, so I wouldn’t do this, but I wonder anyways…

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

One small twist.

If Christmas (a holy day of obligation) was on a Monday, could one foufill both a Sunday obligation and the christmas obligation by going to a Mass on Sunday night? I enjoy Mass, so I wouldn’t do this, but I wonder anyways…

No. You would need to attend one Mass for Sunday and one Mass for Monday.

This year Christmas falls on a Saturday so there is the same need to attend two Masses. The Mass for Christmas will be either Friday evening (Christmas Eve) or Saturday and then a separate Mass for Sunday.

 

[MarkThompson]

One small twist.

If Christmas (a holy day of obligation) was on a Monday, could one foufill both a Sunday obligation and the christmas obligation by going to a Mass on Sunday night? I enjoy Mass, so I wouldn’t do this, but I wonder anyways…

I’m not sure that there’s an “official” answer to this, but on my reading the answer is yes. The canon states:
Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.
The key point here is that in this canon, “on the feast day itself” must refer to the calendar (secular) day, not to the liturgical day, because of the subsequent reference to “the evening of the preceding day.” So a person who goes to Mass on Sunday evening has gone on Sunday, and has gone on the evening preceding the feast day of Christmas. Likewise, when Christmas is on Saturday, attending once on Saturday evening would be sufficient.

Personally, I don’t like going on Saturday and I don’t like trying to calculate the minimum possible that I “have” to do, but I don’t know of any principles that would require attendance at two separate Masses in situations like these.

 

[ConstantineTG]

From earlier discussions here, what I got is that in cases of 2 obligations on back to back days, you fulfill the first obligation first if you haven’t done so. So if Monday is say Christmas and your parish has 9pm and 11pm Mass on Sunday (for Christmas) and you haven’t attended Sunday Mass, going to Mass on either one would only fulfill your Sunday obligation and you would need to go to Mass again. But if you do a back-to-back, 9pm then 11pm, then you would have fulfilled the Sunday and Christmas obligations.

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes, Mass on Sunday night is fine.

Just curious. At what time does Sunday night start and end? If Saturday evening mass can be considered Sunday mass, does it not follow that Sunday should officially ends at Sunday evening/night?

 

[MarkThompson]

Just curious. At what time does Sunday night start and end? If Saturday evening mass can be considered Sunday mass, does it not follow that Sunday should officially ends at Sunday evening/night?

This is covered in the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and Calendar, ¶ 3:
The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.
Therefore, Sunday ends at midnight, because liturgical Monday starts at midnight, not in the evening.

 

[Petergee]

From earlier discussions here, what I got is that in cases of 2 obligations on back to back days, you fulfill the first obligation first if you haven’t done so. So if Monday is say Christmas and your parish has 9pm and 11pm Mass on Sunday (for Christmas) and you haven’t attended Sunday Mass, going to Mass on either one would only fulfill your Sunday obligation and you would need to go to Mass again. But if you do a back-to-back, 9pm then 11pm, then you would have fulfilled the Sunday and Christmas obligations.

No, Mark Thompson is right, going to one Mass in the evening of the first day would fulfil your obligation for BOTH days. Not that I’m suggesting for a moment that anyone should aim for doing the bare legal minimum.

 

[Phemie]

No, Mark Thompson is right, going to one Mass in the evening of the first day would fulfil your obligation for BOTH days. Not that I’m suggesting for a moment that anyone should aim for doing the bare legal minimum.

Sorry, going to Mass in the evening only fulfills one of your obligations. You don’t get a 2 for 1. If you did, the USCCB wouldn’t have felt the need to declare that in years when certain Holy Days of Obligation fall on Saturday or Monday, the obligation to attend Mass is abrogated. They would have simply asked priests to celebrate an evening Mass to ensure that everyone fulfilled both obligations at once.

As for the time of evening Masses, that was set by Pius XII in his 1953 apostolic constitution “Christus Dominus” as no earlier than 4p.m.

 

[laszlo]

The first masses during the ancient persecution of the Church were at Saturday night to remember the resurrection of Christ.

Later for centuries the Mass was allowed to be started from one hour before daybreak, until noon. This was so because the sacramental fast was required from Midnight, and that was taken seriously. The only exception was the Midnight Mass for Christmas.

During WWII due to the fact that there was some break in bombing at late afternoon, the Sunday evening Masses were allowed, and together with that the sacramental fast was reduced to 3 hours for that Masses. This stayed in effect after the war too, Together with that the Holy Triduum ceremonies started to be kept at late evening in the fifties.

After 1970 the anticipated Saturday evening Masses were recommended instead of the Sunday evening masses. Together with that the sacramental fast was reduced to one hour for any Mass. The starting time as someone pointed out was not defined, the earliest (at Christmas eve) what I attended was 2 PM (the logic behind it is that in the traditional Breviary the anticipation of the Matins was allowed from 2 PM)

 

[malphono]

I’m not sure that there’s an “official” answer to this, but on my reading the answer is yes. The canon states:
Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.
The key point here is that in this canon, “on the feast day itself” must refer to the calendar (secular) day, not to the liturgical day, because of the subsequent reference to “the evening of the preceding day.” So a person who goes to Mass on Sunday evening has gone on Sunday, and has gone on the evening preceding the feast day of Christmas. Likewise, when Christmas is on Saturday, attending once on Saturday evening would be sufficient.

Personally, I don’t like going on Saturday and I don’t like trying to calculate the minimum possible that I “have” to do, but I don’t know of any principles that would require attendance at two separate Masses in situations like these.

Yes, but I think canons 1246 & 1247 are equally key to this:

Can. 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. The following days must also be observed: the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, Saint Joseph, Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles, and All Saints.

§2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

As [post=7325520]Phemie[/post] correctly noted, it’s not a “2-fer” since both the Holy Day & the Sunday carry an “obligation.” In some cases, the observance of a Holy Day is transferred to a Sunday. I don’t believe that is ever the case for Christmas, (although I have a fuzzy memory that it may have been in the 1970s), but when it is done, it is publicly declared precisely to eliminate any confusion. Also, even when a Holy Days is transferred, it is the observance that is transferred, not the “obligation” itself.

 

[Reuben_J]

This is covered in the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and Calendar, ¶ 3:
The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.
Therefore, Sunday ends at midnight, because liturgical Monday starts at midnight, not in the evening.

Thanks, Mark. It’s clear now.

God bless.

 

[thistle]

I was wondering if it is alright to have Mass on Sunday night. It doesn’t have to be morning right? Also, a Saturday Mass must begin no sooner than when?
Thank you for answering!
mlz

We have 10 Masses every Sunday.
The first Mass starts at 5.30am and the last Mass starts at 8.30pm. Any of these Masses fulfill the Sunday obligation as does a Mass on Saturday evening.

 

[MarkThompson]

Sorry, going to Mass in the evening only fulfills one of your obligations. You don’t get a 2 for 1. If you did, the USCCB wouldn’t have felt the need to declare that in years when certain Holy Days of Obligation fall on Saturday or Monday, the obligation to attend Mass is abrogated. They would have simply asked priests to celebrate an evening Mass to ensure that everyone fulfilled both obligations at once.

I do not believe the requirement that comes with a day of obligation (Sunday or otherwise) is to somehow go to a unique Mass for that day. The focus of the precept is not to require you to go to a certain minimum number of Masses, it’s to require you to keep holy days holy by having gone to Mass on them. This is why, for instance, when a holy day falls on Sunday, you’re not required to go to two Masses. The requirements don’t pile up; they’re both satisfied by a single Mass.

And it has nothing to do with the abrogation of obligations. If you view the obligation properly (not as having to go to a Mass for that day, but as having to go to a Mass on that day) then you’ll see that no abrogation is required. A single Mass simply satisfies both, because, due to the way our liturgical days are delimited, it falls on both days.

The conclusion you draw about the USCCB, also, does not follow, I’m afraid. The USCCB is not generally in charge of telling priests what their Mass schedules must be, and there will obviously be many, many instances in which priests are not able to schedule evening Masses and parishioners are not able to attend them. The fact that they didn’t force people to go to Sunday evening Mass does not disprove the fact that Sunday evening Mass would have satisfied the Monday HDO obligation were it not abrogated.

As for the time of evening Masses, that was set by Pius XII in his 1953 apostolic constitution “Christus Dominus” as no earlier than 4p.m.

That regulation dealt with a slightly different issue, and it’s not clear whether it’s in force anyway in the modern form of the rite. At the cathedral in Las Vegas, for one, they have an anticipated Mass at 2:30 PM (as well as 4:00, 5:30, and five more times on Sunday).

 

[ConstantineTG]

I do not believe the requirement that comes with a day of obligation (Sunday or otherwise) is to somehow go to a unique Mass for that day. The focus of the precept is not to require you to go to a certain minimum number of Masses, it’s to require you to keep holy days holy by having gone to Mass on them. This is why, for instance, when a holy day falls on Sunday, you’re not required to go to two Masses. The requirements don’t pile up; they’re both satisfied by a single Mass.

And it has nothing to do with the abrogation of obligations. If you view the obligation properly (not as having to go to a Mass for that day, but as having to go to a Mass on that day) then you’ll see that no abrogation is required. A single Mass simply satisfies both, because, due to the way our liturgical days are delimited, it falls on both days.

The conclusion you draw about the USCCB, also, does not follow, I’m afraid. The USCCB is not generally in charge of telling priests what their Mass schedules must be, and there will obviously be man, many instances in which priests are not able to schedule evening Masses and parishioners are not able to attend them.

That regulation dealt with a slightly different issue, and it’s not clear whether it’s in force anyway in the modern form of the rite. At the cathedral in Las Vegas, for one, they have an anticipated Mass at 2:30 PM (as well as 4:00, 5:30, and five more times on Sunday).

Of course if two obligations exist on the same day (ie, Christmas on a Sunday) then you fulfill both by going to one Mass. But if there are two days of obligation one after the other, you cannot hope to fulfill both obligations on the same Mass on the same day give the other obligation is on another day.

 

[malphono]

I do not believe the requirement that comes with a day of obligation (Sunday or otherwise) is to somehow go to a unique Mass for that day. The focus of the precept is not to require you to go to a certain minimum number of Masses, it’s to require you to keep holy days holy by having gone to Mass on them. This is why, for instance, when a holy day falls on Sunday, you’re not required to go to two Masses. The requirements don’t pile up; they’re both satisfied by a single Mass.

No, it’s not the same thing. When a Holy Day coincides with a Sunday, the Holy Day normally takes precedence, but because both occur on the same day, the “obligations” are merged. This is also the case when a Holy Day is transferred, of course. Not so, however, when a non-transferred Holy Day occurs on a Saturday or Monday. It’s not a “2-fer” situation unless it is explicitly stipulated as one, which is very rare. Absent that, one cannot satisfy both “obligations” by attending a Saturday (or Sunday, depending) evening Mass.

I seems to recall you mentioning something about going to SJC in Chicago. Rather than argue, maybe you’d want to give a call and see what the good Canons have to say. That might help to settle the question.

 

[MarkThompson]

No, it’s not the same thing. When a Holy Day coincides with a Sunday, the Holy Day normally takes precedence, but because both occur on the same day, the “obligations” are merged. This is also the case when a Holy Day is transferred, of course. Not so, however, when a non-transferred Holy Day occurs on a Saturday or Monday. It’s not a “2-fer” situation unless it is explicitly stipulated as one, which is very rare. Absent that, one cannot satisfy both “obligations” by attending a Saturday (or Sunday, depending) evening Mass.

But there is no obligation to attend one Mass per holy day. The obligation is to attend Mass on a holy day, or the evening before:
Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.
. . .
Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.
If I go to a single Sunday evening Mass when an HDO is on Monday, did I (1) participate in the Mass on Sunday? Yes, obviously; and (2) assist at a Mass celebrated anywhere on the evening of the day preceding the HDO? Why yes, that too.

The problem here, as I see it, is the attempt to construe the obligation as a requirement to go to one Mass per holy day. I can understand why people would have an initial tendency to view it that way, and but in reality that goes well beyond the terms of the canon itself, and adds a requirement where none exists.

I seems to recall you mentioning something about going to SJC in Chicago. Rather than argue, maybe you’d want to give a call and see what the good Canons have to say. That might help to settle the question.

Naw, I prefer armchair canonlawyering, in the true spirit of CAF.

 

[malphono]

But there is no obligation to attend one Mass per holy day. The obligation is to attend Mass on a holy day, or the evening before: …

If I go to a single Sunday evening Mass when an HDO is on Monday, did I (1) participate in the Mass on Sunday? Yes, obviously; and (2) assist at a Mass celebrated anywhere on the evening of the day preceding the HDO? Why yes, that too.

The problem here, as I see it, is the attempt to construe the obligation as a requirement to go to one Mass per holy day. I can understand why people would have an initial tendency to view it that way, and but in reality that goes well beyond the terms of the canon itself, and adds a requirement where none exists.

What you seem to be doing is trying to rationalize from the canons, and that really doesn’t work.

There is an “obligation” that attaches to both the Holy Day and to the Sunday. The two are not the same. Unless the observance of the Holy Day is transferred to the Sunday, the two obligations are separate and do not coincide.

With all the leeway allowed by Rome these days, this situation only crops up occasionally and only for selected Holy Days that are normally not transferred (Christmas being the first and foremost). When Christmas falls on a Saturday or a Monday, there is an “obligation” of the faithful for both. IOW, they are “obliged” to attend Mass twice: once for the Holy Day and once for the Sunday. The time of day of the Mass (during the day or evening before) is immaterial.

Naw, I prefer armchair canonlawyering, in the true spirit of CAF.

Yeah, I figured as much. But while we’re waiting for this to not be comcluded, you might want to search some of FrDavid96’s posts on this same topic. Believe me, it has come up before.

 

[thistle]

What you seem to be doing is trying to rationalize from the canons, and that really doesn’t work.

There is an “obligation” that attaches to both the Holy Day and to the Sunday. The two are not the same. Unless the observance of the Holy Day is transferred to the Sunday, the two obligations are separate and do not coincide.

With all the leeway allowed by Rome these days, this situation only crops up occasionally and only for selected Holy Days that are normally not transferred (Christmas being the first and foremost). When Christmas falls on a Saturday or a Monday, there is an “obligation” of the faithful for both. IOW, they are “obliged” to attend Mass twice: once for the Holy Day and once for the Sunday. The time of day of the Mass (during the day or evening before) is immaterial.

Yeah, I figured as much. But while we’re waiting for this to not be comcluded, you might want to search some of FrDavid96’s posts on this same topic. Believe me, it has come up before.

At our parish Church in the past where there has been a Holy day of Obligation on two consecutive days (rarely happened), I have been to the evening Mass on the first Holy Day of Obligation and during the Homily the priest has specifically said that we get “2 for 1” and that the Mass we were attending covered our obligation for both days.
Now whether the priest was correct or not I don’t know but everyone took him at his word and accepted that.