Sunday Evg Mass-Legal?

[MulusChristi]

In Judaism, the day ends at sunset. That’s not the case in Catholicism. The day ends at midnight, as others have posted.

You are thinking of the earlier covenant!

 

[Dominica33]

jbuck919:

I knew the point would come up of people who have demands that keep them from being there on Sunday morning. Exigent demands are excused. If you can’t get there because of an exigent demand in your life, you just don’t get there.

Working at the nursery at AM Mass is not an exigent demand because there is not supposed to be babysitting at Catholic Masses. You either stay home with the child because it would be imprudent to bring him/her along, or you bring him/her along.

Vacation tripping is an optional “excusal” from Mass and is simply to be confessed.

Abstaining from Mass because of work can be an exigent circumstance if one is on a shift system in a job that one had to accept in order to support self or family. But if one has an option, one does not take a job that requires working on Sunday morning. And an observant Catholic never takes a job that requires permanent Sunday morning duties no matter what.

In practice, these exceptions, mentioned in charity I am sure, are exactly that, exceptions. People who go to Mass on Sunday evening in this day and age couldn’t drag themselves out of bed on Sunday morning. Ask any current or former college student whose chaplaincy still indulges this.

This is a very good synopsis. In reality, Saturday evening Vigil Masses should be nearly empty. As mentioned, exigent demands are excused, though very few Catholics actually have those demands on a weekly basis.

I think the Vigil Mass is one thing that needs to be supressed as part of the reforms that are inevitable, either under Benedict XVI, or the next Supreme Pontiff.

 

[m134e5]

Sunday evening Masses are just fine. Honestly, I wish they’d have more of them. Our only Sunday evening Mass in town is at 8pm. I prefer to go to Mass on Sundays (I get confused as to which day it is when I switch around a lot), but cannot go that late and it is difficult to find a ride on Sunday mornings.

 

[gelsbern]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(liturgy

Before the liturgical reforms of Pope Pius XII and the Second Vatican Council, it was forbidden, except for Midnight Mass on Christmas night, to begin Mass more than one hour before dawn or more than one hour after midday. There are no longer any time limits. While Roman Catholics could previously fulfill their obligation to attend Sunday Mass only on the morning of Sunday itself, they may now do so on Saturday evening (generally taken to mean not before 4 p.m.) or at any time on Sunday. Most parish churches offer this possibility on Saturday evening and, to a less extent, on Sunday afternoon and evening.

It was Pope Pius the XII that introduced the Saturday evening masses and later Vatican II did away with the rule that forbade beginning Mass after noon on Sunday.

 

[LilyM]

jbuck919:

I knew the point would come up of people who have demands that keep them from being there on Sunday morning. Exigent demands are excused. If you can’t get there because of an exigent demand in your life, you just don’t get there.

Working at the nursery at AM Mass is not an exigent demand because there is not supposed to be babysitting at Catholic Masses. You either stay home with the child because it would be imprudent to bring him/her along, or you bring him/her along.

Vacation tripping is an optional “excusal” from Mass and is simply to be confessed.

Abstaining from Mass because of work can be an exigent circumstance if one is on a shift system in a job that one had to accept in order to support self or family. But if one has an option, one does not take a job that requires working on Sunday morning. And an observant Catholic never takes a job that requires permanent Sunday morning duties no matter what.

In practice, these exceptions, mentioned in charity I am sure, are exactly that, exceptions. People who go to Mass on Sunday evening in this day and age couldn’t drag themselves out of bed on Sunday morning. Ask any current or former college student whose chaplaincy still indulges this.

But surely if you can work/study/fulfil other commitments/party if you feel like it (within reason) and ALSO fulfil your obligation to go to Mass on Sunday evening because your parish offers it, that’s better than not going or having to pick and choose your weekend activities.

Jesus does want to see us in church on Sunday - for me that means any mass that’s offered is equally acceptable. We here in Oz very rarely have masses after 6pm on a Sunday, in fact some churches don’t have Sunday evening Masses at all - I would love to be able to get going a bit later on a Sunday morning and still be able to attend Mass as well as do everything else that needs doing.

 

[Hesychios]

Chatter163:

I believe the the member who posted the question was not aware that Sunday, being the Lord’s Day, is longer than other days of the week. It begins at sundown Saturday and lasts until midnight Sunday. Sunday Mass may be celebrated at any hour during this time.

This is a rather astounding assertion.

I honestly think it is not worth speculating over, it is done because the church says it’s OK.

The ancient church followed the Judaic understanding of a day being from sundown to sundown. Greek/Russian Orthodoxy still does, probably the Byzantine Catholics do as well.

The replacement of vespers with a vigil Mass is sad but that’s the Catholic way. I think the community would benefit from a restoration of public vespers but there are far too many parishes that need that time for Masses so I am sure it will not happen outside of monasteries.

So if Rome gives the permission and the bishop takes advantage of the exception, OK then, more power to them.

+T+
Michael

 

[porthos11]

Dominica33:

This is a very good synopsis. In reality, Saturday evening Vigil Masses should be nearly empty. As mentioned, exigent demands are excused, though very few Catholics actually have those demands on a weekly basis.

I think the Vigil Mass is one thing that needs to be supressed as part of the reforms that are inevitable, either under Benedict XVI, or the next Supreme Pontiff.

No one needs a good excuse to attend Saturday Vigil Masses. Sundays and Solemnities begin with Evening Prayer I on the previous day.

Anyone can attend Saturday evening Mass for any reason whatsoever, including personal preference and convenience because, liturgically, after Evening Prayer I, it is already Sunday.

It’s probably not proper to suppress the vigil Mass because it clearly shows the Church’s consideration of Sundays and solemnities beginning the evening before, especially because most laity do not celebrate the Liturgy of the Hours (although they really ought to).

See the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and Calendar
scborromeo.org/litcal.htm

1. Each day is made holy through the liturgical celebrations of the people of God, especially through the eucharistic sacrifice and the divine office. The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.

1. Solemnities are counted as the principal days in the calendar and their observance begins with evening prayer I of the preceding day. Some also have their own vigil Mass for use when Mass is celebrated in the evening of the preceding day. The celebration of Easter and Christmas, the two greatest solemnities, continues for eight days, with each octave governed by its own rules.

 

[thistle]

jbuck919:

I’m sure that many members here are, like myself, old enough to remember (even back to pre-VII) when Sunday night Mass in the US was routine. It fell into use when the vigil or anticipatory Mass was introduced, and that is a relatively recent innovation (the last 30 years or less).

If I were voting in that parish, I would say forget about these night Masses completely (with the obvious exception of Holy Thursday, the Easter Vigil, and Midnight Mass at Christmas) and get your butt into Mass on Sunday morning, which is the traditional and intended time for the major parish Mass of the week. Christ didn’t rise on Saturday or Sunday night. The reason all those “young adults” are showing up on Sunday night is that they are sleeping off their partying in the morning, which is no excuse for missing Mass.

You are not being very practical. Our church capacity is 1500 and each of the 10 Masses on Sunday is filled to capacity. How would you suggest we get 15000 people into a church with a capacity of 1500?
And your comments about why people attend evening Mass are quite ridiculous and not worthy of a Catholic to say such things. All these years I thought only God knew people’s minds but here I find you know too!!

 

[davy39]

OK, then, thank you all for your replies. The reason I wondered, is that I had never heard of a Sunday evening Mass in our area before now, but all the explanations make sense to me. I live in a rural area, and evidently the Sun. eve Masses are more common in the cities. Anyway, thanks again for setting me straight. God bless

 

[jbuck919]

You are not being very practical. Our church capacity is 1500 and each of the 10 Masses on Sunday is filled to capacity. How would you suggest we get 15000 people into a church with a capacity of 1500?
And your comments about why people attend evening Mass are quite ridiculous and not worthy of a Catholic to say such things. All these years I thought only God knew people’s minds but here I find you know too!!

Where in the United States, if that’s where you are, or anywhere else in the world these days, do you find a church with a capacity of 1500 that is filled to capacity ten times every Sunday? The (newer) cathedral in Baltimore didn’t hold 1500 people to begin with and I assure you was not filled for Mass even three times every Sunday. I’m from Missouri on this one. Nevertheless, there’s a solution to that, and it’s called, create a new parish.

 

[LilyM]

jbuck919:

Where in the United States, if that’s where you are, or anywhere else in the world these days, do you find a church with a capacity of 1500 that is filled to capacity ten times every Sunday? The (newer) cathedral in Baltimore didn’t hold 1500 people to begin with and I assure you was not filled for Mass even three times every Sunday. I’m from Missouri on this one. Nevertheless, there’s a solution to that, and it’s called, create a new parish.

There’s a church here in Sydney, don’t know its capacity but it has 10 masses of a Sunday and I’ve been at various times of day and they all seem to be pretty full.

It does seem to be an enormous waste of resources to make a new parish (requiring a new church but also a lot of other things) but have a huge church standing empty or almost empty on a Sunday night when people want to go at that time and could be filling it.

 

[AJV]

jbuck919:

Where in the United States, if that’s where you are, or anywhere else in the world these days, do you find a church with a capacity of 1500 that is filled to capacity ten times every Sunday? The (newer) cathedral in Baltimore didn’t hold 1500 people to begin with and I assure you was not filled for Mass even three times every Sunday. I’m from Missouri on this one. Nevertheless, there’s a solution to that, and it’s called, create a new parish.

Here in the world you’ll easily get a crowd of 1500 NO PROBLEM. There are at least 1500 people who come for Daily Mass in the morning 6:30 a.m. I leave it you to conjucture how many people atend on Days of Obligation. And it is not possible to create a new parish.

 

[thistle]

jbuck919:

Where in the United States, if that’s where you are, or anywhere else in the world these days, do you find a church with a capacity of 1500 that is filled to capacity ten times every Sunday? The (newer) cathedral in Baltimore didn’t hold 1500 people to begin with and I assure you was not filled for Mass even three times every Sunday. I’m from Missouri on this one. Nevertheless, there’s a solution to that, and it’s called, create a new parish.

I live in the Philippines which is 85% Catholic, has 72 million Catholics, and where Mass attendence is above 75%. I feel really sorry if your Masses are poorly attended but I can assure you here in the Philippines the people live and breathe Christ and Masses are always full.

 

[jbuck919]

AJV:

Here in the world you’ll easily get a crowd of 1500 NO PROBLEM. There are at least 1500 people who come for Daily Mass in the morning 6:30 a.m. I leave it you to conjucture how many people atend on Days of Obligation. And it is not possible to create a new parish.

Actually I was wrong about several things. The Cathedral of Mary Our Queen in Baltimore actually holds 1900 (I should know better because we had our high school graduations there).

I am of course not going to press a point not worth pressing. If it is literally the case that a church has to accommodate enough people so that it requires basically nonstop Masses that “spill over” into the evening hours in either or both directions, then I am not going to say that is a bad thing. And I realize that it is easy for an American to say open a new parish because that is still a reasonable possibility in most parts of the US (ironic, since wonderful urban churches are closing right and left), but there are many places where it would be next to impossible.

But I must ask you, where are you that you get 1500 people at 6:30 every morning for weekday Mass and a new parish is impossible? My first thought was, the only Catholic church in Shanghai. But I don’t want to be sarcastic. Honestly, if you feel up to letting us know, I would very much like to hear what this miracle place is.

 

[thistle]

jbuck919:

Actually I was wrong about several things. The Cathedral of Mary Our Queen in Baltimore actually holds 1900 (I should know better because we had our high school graduations there).

I am of course not going to press a point not worth pressing. If it is literally the case that a church has to accommodate enough people so that it requires basically nonstop Masses that “spill over” into the evening hours in either or both directions, then I am not going to say that is a bad thing. And I realize that it is easy for an American to say open a new parish because that is still a reasonable possibility in most parts of the US (ironic, since wonderful urban churches are closing right and left), but there are many places where it would be next to impossible.

But I must ask you, where are you that you get 1500 people at 6:30 every morning for weekday Mass and a new parish is impossible? My first thought was, the only Catholic church in Shanghai. But I don’t want to be sarcastic. Honestly, if you feel up to letting us know, I would very much like to hear what this miracle place is.

Manila. All Masses are full from 6.45am to 8.30pm on a Sunday. I was not talking about weekdays as this thread is about Sunday Mass.

 

[jbuck919]

thistle:

Manila. All Masses are full from 6.45am to 8.30pm on a Sunday. I was not talking about weekdays as this thread is about Sunday Mass.

No, you weren’t, but AJV was. Your story I understand.

 

[THutch04]

We have a 9pm Mass at Duquesne, and I really prefer to go to that one. It’s much quieter than the 11am Mass, and the 6pm one I don’t like to go to for several reasons…I really like the quiet atmosphere, it’s a place where I can really reflect on the past week, and the week ahead. Now, when I cannot go, then I force myself to go to the 11am one or whichever one I’m able to attend. At home an evening Mass is not an option, so I always go in the morning.

 

[thistle]

jbuck919:

No, you weren’t, but AJV was. Your story I understand.

Actually if I can ever figure out how to get photos into a post I would take some pictures of people standing and sitting on chairs outside the church on the road hearing Mass.

 

[Hesychios]

thistle:

Actually if I can ever figure out how to get photos into a post I would take some pictures of people standing and sitting on chairs outside the church on the road hearing Mass.

This is very impressive. I would like to know how many priests are currently assigned to a parish with 15,000 average Sunday attendance.

+T+
Michael

 

[puzzleannie]

I sure hope so because I will have to take advantage of it again at our neighboring parish, late for 9 am because person with key to open hall for RCIA was late, so had tail end of that Mass, had first half of 10:30 with group for 2nd scrutiny, had to head out after that because teacher for children’s class didn’t show up. I guess half of two different Masses does not add up to one whole Mass) Parents covered for me and showed a video on Lent until I got there. Two parents were late picking up kids so I could not eat, blood sugar dipped real low so I had to eat and did not go to Noon Mass.

Had planned to go to 5:00 last night, which I usually do just because situations like this are always happening, but MIL needed a drugstore run and had other demands on our time. So I will head over to campus ministry this evening.