Sunday is more than 24 hours (for Mass purposes)?

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A Saturday vigil Mass can start at 4:00pm and no earlier. Shouldn’t the cutoff for a Sunday Mass be 4:00pm as well (if not 3:00pm)? Where I live there is a Mass at 4:00pm Saturday in one parish and 15 minutes down the road there is a Mass at 6:00pm on Sunday.

I understand why Mass counts on a Saturday evening, but why would a Mass Sunday evening count too? I would think the window for attending Mass would only be 24 hours.
 
JIB said:
A Saturday vigil Mass can start at 4:00pm and no earlier. Shouldn’t the cutoff for a Sunday Mass be 4:00pm as well (if not 3:00pm)? Where I live there is a Mass at 4:00pm Saturday in one parish and 15 minutes down the road there is a Mass at 6:00pm on Sunday.

I understand why Mass counts on a Saturday evening, but why would a Mass Sunday evening count too? I would think the window for attending Mass would only be 24 hours.
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The way it works is that all solemnities begin on the evening-before, at the time of First Vespers.

Since all Sundays are Solemnities, they all begin the evening before.

If the next day (Monday) is not a solemnity which would take precedence over the Sunday (which happens very rarely) then the next day still begins at midnight.

Therefore, a Mass at 6:00 PM on Saturday is the Mass of Sunday, and likewise the Mass of 6:00 PM on Sunday is the Mass of Sunday.
 
Just as Christ miraculously multiplied the loaves to feed the 5,000, so each Sunday he comes and miraculously creates extra hours each Sunday for all the people of the world.
 
Alveus_Lacuna said:
Just as Christ miraculously multiplied the loaves to feed the 5,000, so each Sunday he comes and miraculously creates extra hours each Sunday for all the people of the world.
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I love this! I also love that you can pretty much count on the idea that Mass is quite possibly being celebrated at any given moment on this big blue ball called Earth that God created for us.
 
So for Mass purposes Sunday is 30+ hours?

I’m still not seeing an explanation for why, just that it is.
 
JIB said:
So for Mass purposes Sunday is 30+ hours?
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Yes.
I’m still not seeing an explanation for why, just that it is.
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The reason is because the biblical understanding of a day is that the day begins at sunset, when the previous day ends. That’s why the Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday evening, not Saturday.

The other reason is that “the Church is generous” in allowing the faithful the broadest opportunity to attend Sunday Mass—that’s why the time for Sunday extends to midnight on Monday rather than ending on Sunday evening.
 
JIB said:
So for Mass purposes Sunday is 30+ hours?

I’m still not seeing an explanation for why, just that it is.
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This is the way it is, like full moons and ocean tides. Learn to live with it. There are much more serious things to be concerned with
 
JIB said:
That’s an absolutely useless reply.
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Just like it is absolutely worthless to ponder why Sunday begins at 4 p.m. Saturday and ends at midnight Sunday. God through His Church has decided to be overly generous with His people. As the old beer commercial goes: why ask why?
 
Well, you can always impose a 24 hour limit on yourself attending Mass if it bothers you. The church, as people have said, allows more time. It’s kind of like when I had a boss in city purchasing and the bid opening time was 2pm. We waited and 2pm passed and contractors were waiting for the bid opening to see who got it. But the boss said “It’s 2pm when I say it’s 2pm.” So magically, 2pm lasted for at least 10 minutes.
 
Hi JIB,

I’ve often wondered the same thing myself. Oddly enough, I think the restriction for number of times one may receive Communion is exactly the opposite. That does follow the “midnight” rule.

It’s mainly an element of practicality. Everyone has different schedules, and every reasonable leniency that can be allowed for one to fulfill their Sunday obligation should be. Even though the window for Sunday mass is greater than 24 hours, rarely is your typical Sunday mass goer actually celebrating Sunday for that entire time.

Some choose to start celebrating Sunday on Saturday evening. Others prefer to start celebrating Sunday that morning. The church allows the option for both and leaves it up to our individual dioceses, parishes and even our individual selves.

Hope that helps! God bless!
 
JIB said:
So for Mass purposes Sunday is 30+ hours?

I’m still not seeing an explanation for why, just that it is.
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Not just for Mass purposes but for the liturgy in general. Sundays and solemnities have First Vespers on the eve as well.

It really harks back to the ancient Jewish custom of starting a celebration the evening before. Typically in Judaism the liturgical day, say for the Sabbath, was sundown-to-sundown.

We’ve retained the notion of starting the previous evening, but we end at midnight unless as noted above another solemnity that takes precedence over a Sunday is on the Monday (for instance if Christmas fell on a Monday).

In some ways it’s amazing how many of our traditions carried over from Judaism, for instance the praying of psalms morning and evening carried over into what is now the Liturgy of the Hours aka Divine Office. There are many more examples.
 
JIB said:
I’m still not seeing an explanation for why, just that it is.
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Because the Church has chosen, in it’s Mercy, to allow Masses attended on the vigil to fulfil the obligation.

It does so under the authority given by God to bind and to loose. That includes both binding and loosening.

The Church could also, under the same authority, decree that only Masses said between 7:00am and 9:00am on Sunday fulfil the obligation.

That does not change Sunday from a 24 hour day to a 2 hour day. It simply defines the timeframe in which a obligation to attend Mass is fulfilled.

Likewise, the calendar times for Sunday do not change by incorporating the vigil hours into the time period in which the obligation is fulfilled, what changes is just that, the hours during which we are bound to attend Mass at least once.

No more, no less.
 
FrDavid96 said:
The way it works is that all solemnities begin on the evening-before, at the time of First Vespers.

Since all Sundays are Solemnities, they all begin the evening before.

If the next day (Monday) is not a solemnity which would take precedence over the Sunday (which happens very rarely) then the next day still begins at midnight.

Therefore, a Mass at 6:00 PM on Saturday is the Mass of Sunday, and likewise the Mass of 6:00 PM on Sunday is the Mass of Sunday.
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So, if a solemnity fell on a Monday, then the Sunday evening Mass would be for the solemnity rather than Sunday? I think it is different in the a East. I’m pretty sure our liturgical day always begins with vespers. We pray Vespers in my parish on Thursdays, and it is always the Vespers for feast or saint for Friday, solemnity or not.
 
babochka said:
So, if a solemnity fell on a Monday, then the Sunday evening Mass would be for the solemnity rather than Sunday? I think it is different in the a East. I’m pretty sure our liturgical day always begins with vespers. We pray Vespers in my parish on Thursdays, and it is always the Vespers for feast or saint for Friday, solemnity or not.
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Yes. The evening Mass would be that of the Solemnity (Monday)—provided that the solemnity itself takes precedence over that Sunday. That’s why it can sometimes be confusing. For example, nothing takes precedence over Sundays of Lent or Advent; not in the sense of being able to replace them. Obviously, Good Friday ranks as a higher day than the 5th Sunday of Lent, but they can never conflict.

Yes, it’s different in East and West. The East is consistent in that the day always begins at evening; in the West, it varies.
 
So if I go to a 6:00pm Mass on Sunday and that Monday is a solemnity I haven’t fulfilled the Sunday obligation?

I have no problem if the answer to the original question is “Jewish culture started days the evening before and our culture doesn’t so we’re splitting the difference”. I would just like to see that be the actual answer and not “Cuz the Church sez so”. I know the Church can loose and bind whatever they can in this regard, I’m just curious about the reasoning. As far as I know the Church isn’t arbitrary - there is a reason.
 
JIB said:
So if I go to a 6:00pm Mass on Sunday and that Monday is a solemnity I haven’t fulfilled the Sunday obligation?
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Of course it fulfills the Sunday obligation. It’s the Holy Day (if that’s what you mean by “solemnity”) that would be the issue.
 
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