Sunday is more than 24 hours (for Mass purposes)?

[dans0622]

So if I go to a 6:00pm Mass on Sunday and that Monday is a solemnity I haven’t fulfilled the Sunday obligation?

I have no problem if the answer to the original question is “Jewish culture started days the evening before and our culture doesn’t so we’re splitting the difference”. I would just like to see that be the actual answer and not “Cuz the Church sez so”. I know the Church can loose and bind whatever they can in this regard, I’m just curious about the reasoning. As far as I know the Church isn’t arbitrary - there is a reason.

Hello,

The best answer can be found in post #8. It doesn’t really go beyond the fact that the Church has shown a desire to make it easier (or, in some cases, possible) for everyone to fulfill their Mass obligation. So, we are given more time to do so.

Dan

 

[babochka]

Of course it fulfills the Sunday obligation. It’s the Holy Day (if that’s what you mean by “solemnity”) that would be the issue.

Not if all solemnities begin on the evening before. In that case, a 6pm Mass would always be for the following day, not for the Sunday.

 

[ProVobis]

Not if all solemnities begin on the evening before. In that case, a 6pm Mass would always be for the following day, not for the Sunday.

All I know is if Saturday or Monday is a day of undispensed obligation, then one would have to go twice to fulfill both that day’s and Sunday’s obligation. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, in some cases the Saturday/Monday obligation is removed, and probably to remove the confusion of whether a Mass in the “overlapping” period (4pm-11:59pm) counts and for which day.

 

[babochka]

All I know is if Saturday or Monday is a day of undispensed obligation, then one would have to go twice to fulfill both that day’s and Sunday’s obligation. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, in some cases the Saturday/Monday obligation is removed, and probably to remove the confusion of whether a Mass in the “overlapping” period (4pm-11:59pm) counts and for which day.

Yes, but one would still have to attend a Sunday Mass. If Monday were a solemnity, the Mass on Sunday evening would be a Mass for the Solemnity, not a Sunday Mass.

 

[FrDavid96]

So if I go to a 6:00pm Mass on Sunday and that Monday is a solemnity I haven’t fulfilled the Sunday obligation?

I have no problem if the answer to the original question is “Jewish culture started days the evening before and our culture doesn’t so we’re splitting the difference”. I would just like to see that be the actual answer and not “Cuz the Church sez so”. I know the Church can loose and bind whatever they can in this regard, I’m just curious about the reasoning. As far as I know the Church isn’t arbitrary - there is a reason.

Yes, it would technically fulfill the Sunday obligation. From a spiritual and pastoral perspective, I would say that “there’s more to it than that.” But I’ll leave it at that for now. It does fulfill the obligation.

I don’t understand your second paragraph. You state the reason, then say that you want to know the reason…The reason is because the biblical understanding of a day is that the next day begins at sunset, when the previous day ends.

 

[OraLabora]

Not if all solemnities begin on the evening before. In that case, a 6pm Mass would always be for the following day, not for the Sunday.

Not all solemnities that fall on a Monday take precedence over the Sunday. For instance if the solemnity of St. Joseph or the Annunciation were to fall on a Monday in Lent, as nothing can take precedence over a Sunday in Lent, then the Sunday evening Mass would be of the Sunday, not the solemnity.

It gets a bit confusing. If your diocese or conference of bishops publishes an ordo, that would clear up the confusion.

 

[JIB]

Yes, it would technically fulfill the Sunday obligation. From a spiritual and pastoral perspective, I would say that “there’s more to it than that.” But I’ll leave it at that for now. It does fulfill the obligation.

I don’t understand your second paragraph. You state the reason, then say that you want to know the reason…The reason is because the biblical understanding of a day is that the next day begins at sunset, when the previous day ends.

Is there any official document explaining Sundays being more than 24 hours?

I would like for you to expound on “there’s more to it than that”.

 

[FrDavid96]

Is there any official document explaining Sundays being more than 24 hours?

Yes. Quite a bit.

Canon 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

I can provide all kinds of references from Church documents at the highest level (Catechism, General Instruction for the Calendar, etc. etc.) but is that really necessary?

Also: (my personal favorite) from Bl (soon Saint!) John Paul II

1. Because the faithful are obliged to attend Mass unless there is a grave impediment, Pastors have the corresponding duty to offer to everyone the real possibility of fulfilling the precept. The provisions of Church law move in this direction, as for example in the faculty granted to priests, with the prior authorization of the diocesan Bishop, to celebrate more than one Mass on Sundays and holy days, the institution of evening Masses and the provision which allows the obligation to be fulfilled from Saturday evening onwards, starting at the time of First Vespers of Sunday. From a liturgical point of view, in fact, holy days begin with First Vespers [note: that means evening prayer on Saturday]. Consequently, the liturgy of what is sometimes called the “Vigil Mass” is in effect the “festive” Mass of Sunday*, at which the celebrant is required to preach the homily and recite the Prayer of the Faithful.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

Note on the English translation: that sentence (in Latin) reads more like: what is sometimes called the “pre-feastday” (not Vigil as the translator uses) Mass is the “festive Mass” or “Mass of the feast” of Sunday. There’s also a clause which adds “it is the day of the Lord” or “it is Sunday” which the English translator left out completely for some odd reason. Since it’s hard to distinguish “day of the Lord” from “Day of Sunday” in Latin, (they are both “Dies Domini”) it’s difficult to tell which sense he meant—probably both, since it’s really a distinction without a difference.

I can post the original Latin if you need (or just find it on the Latin version of vatican.va)

I would like for you to expound on “there’s more to it than that”.

I didn’t want to bring this up voluntarily. What I meant by that is to say that I personally (and pastorally) feel that if a person were to intentionally manipulate his schedule to attend the Sunday evening Mass (in this particular case, the Mass of the Solemnity on Monday) so as to intentionally miss the actual Mass-texts of Sunday, such a person would be satisfying the requirement of canon law to attend Mass on either the day-of or the evening-before, but would not truly have kept holy the Lord’s Day of Sunday. The canon would be satisfied, but the true spirit of keeping Sunday would not be satisfied. That’s a pastoral response.

 

[JIB]

I appreciate your post. I’m not questioning the validity, I’m looking to be educated, so the more information the better. I’m an educator by trade and “because I said so” has never gone over well with me in terms of why something has to be done, so I don’t use that on my students either.

 

[FrDavid96]

I appreciate your post. I’m not questioning the validity, I’m looking to be educated, so the more information the better. I’m an educator by trade and “because I said so” has never gone over well with me in terms of why something has to be done, so I don’t use that on my students either.

I have to admit, you have me confused here. You keep repeating that “because I said so” is not a good reason. That’s not the reason that’s been given here. From the start of this thread, posters have been trying to explain it, in various ways, but you keep coming back and saying “because I said so” isn’t good enough. You have me confused.

Maybe one early post might be interpreted as “because the Church says so” but that was only after several others had already posted the explanations, then you said that those weren’t good enough.

I just don’t see what you’re trying to accomplish here. What is it that you want?

 

[Vico]

A Saturday vigil Mass can start at 4:00pm and no earlier. Shouldn’t the cutoff for a Sunday Mass be 4:00pm as well (if not 3:00pm)? Where I live there is a Mass at 4:00pm Saturday in one parish and 15 minutes down the road there is a Mass at 6:00pm on Sunday.

I understand why Mass counts on a Saturday evening, but why would a Mass Sunday evening count too? I would think the window for attending Mass would only be 24 hours.

The Catholic Church decided that for the good of souls, to extend the time to fulfill the Mass obligation for Sunday and Solemnities. Many people have work schedules that make it difficult to meet the obligation. In the 1983 Canon Law, the time which had to be from 4PM on the day before the Sunday or Solemnity, was made more flexible, such that in some places the Bishop has allowed fulfillment at times earlier than that in the afternoon. The celebration of the Sunday or Solemnity begins on the prior day, but that Mass used in fulfillment of the obligation may not be a Mass of the Sunday or Solemnity. The Sunday or Solemnity day is actually 24 hours (or 23 or 25 on leap days) but the time for fulfillment is extended.

 

[garn9173]

Honestly, at the end of the day, does it matter what time of day on a Sunday when Mass is offered?

Like it or not this isn’t the 1950’s and for most of the population, including me, life as we know it doesn’t come to a screeching halt on Sunday’s. This coming weekend, attending what’s known as “the last chance Mass” in the Des Moines area Sunday afternoon at 4pm will be my only opportunity of the weekend to attend Mass.

 

[sjays]

The way it works is that all solemnities begin on the evening-before, at the time of First Vespers.

Since all Sundays are Solemnities, they all begin the evening before.

If the next day (Monday) is not a solemnity which would take precedence over the Sunday (which happens very rarely) then the next day still begins at midnight.

Therefore, a Mass at 6:00 PM on Saturday is the Mass of Sunday, and likewise the Mass of 6:00 PM on Sunday is the Mass of Sunday.

 

[babochka]

Honestly, at the end of the day, does it matter what time of day on a Sunday when Mass is offered?

Like it or not this isn’t the 1950’s and for most of the population, including me, life as we know it doesn’t come to a screeching halt on Sunday’s. This coming weekend, attending what’s known as “the last chance Mass” in the Des Moines area Sunday afternoon at 4pm will be my only opportunity of the weekend to attend Mass.

Last chance Mass at 4:00? Makes me feel lucky. Two local (with 20 minute drive) offer a 7:30 pm Sunday Mass, and one parish has a 6:00 pm Sunday Mass. I have attended each of the three.

 

[Vico]

So, if a solemnity fell on a Monday, then the Sunday evening Mass would be for the solemnity rather than Sunday? I think it is different in the a East. I’m pretty sure our liturgical day always begins with vespers. We pray Vespers in my parish on Thursdays, and it is always the Vespers for feast or saint for Friday, solemnity or not.

Celebrations start on prior days, just as the obligation is fulfilled on prior days, according to either the Latin or eastern Catholic canon laws.

In the Byzantine Catholic Church (Vespers at sunset), sometimes the Vespers with Litija are on the eve of the feast, with Matins and Divine Liturgy in the morning, and other times Vespers with Litija, followed* immediately* by festal Matins, called an All-Night Vigil, is done. Normally:

Monastary - Minor Feast
Vespers at sunset
Small Compline (evening)
Midnight Office (night)
Matins (dawn)
First Hour
Third, Sixth and Ninth Hours (may be combined)
Divine Liturgy

Parish - Minor Feast
Vespers on the vigil of the feast
Matins
First Hour
Divine Liturgy

Some parishes only have the Divine Liturgy on the Sunday morning, and on Saturday evening, have Divine Liturgy instead of Vespers, or the Vespers with Divine Liturgy.

 

[Brendan]

Last chance Mass at 4:00? Makes me feel lucky. Two local (with 20 minute drive) offer a 7:30 pm Sunday Mass, and one parish has a 6:00 pm Sunday Mass. I have attended each of the three.

In our Archdiocese, each Vicariate is required to have at least one parish offer a Sunday evening Mass.

Our parish has that privilege, so it offers a Sunday 8:30pm Mass. About half the regular attendees are from a nearby hospital. If a doctor or nurse is on the night shift, it is substantially easier to attend this Mass than to have to wake up in the middle of their regular sleep hours.

 

[Vico]

In our Archdiocese, each Vicariate is required to have at least one parish offer a Sunday evening Mass.

Our parish has that privilege, so it offers a Sunday 8:30pm Mass. About half the regular attendees are from a nearby hospital. If a doctor or nurse is on the night shift, it is substantially easier to attend this Mass than to have to wake up in the middle of their regular sleep hours.

And at U of Notre Dame there are 10pm Sunday night Masses.