Sunday Mass Obligation

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tuopaolo:
Swiss Guard is right about the issue of vigil/anticpated Masses. For example if you attend a wedding Mass on Saturday “evening” then that fulfills your Sunday obligation.
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OK, I have learned something tonight, as I always questioned the attending of a late wedding Mass in order to fulfill one’s Sunday obligation. A friend of mine’s mother always checks the church bulletin to see if there is a 4:00 wedding that she can sit in on so that she does not have to wait for the 6:00 anticipated Liturgy that her parish offers.

I have always been taken back by this. I always thought that for the Mass to “count” (sorry for putting it so crudely) as a Sunday anticipated Mass, the readings and prayers appointed for the day had to be read.

So, actually, what makes the Liturgy satisfy the Sunday obligation is the intention of the participant…am I correct with this, or do I have it all wrong?

Now, being lazy tonight and not wanting to do another search, I have another question. Somewhere I read (and it was way back, a long time ago…in the 1970’s, perhaps) that the Saturday evening vigil Mass was never intended to become as popular as it is, with every parish offering one. The original intent was for selected churches throughout the diocese to offer the Mass for those whose Sunday employment would keep them away from Mass. Is this true, or just the ramblings of some disgruntled Catholic after “the change” (Vatican II)?

Thanks so much for your patience and answers.

Joe
 
Somewhere I read (and it was way back, a long time ago…in the 1970’s, perhaps) that the Saturday evening vigil Mass was never intended to become as popular as it is, with every parish offering one. The original intent was for selected churches throughout the diocese to offer the Mass for those whose Sunday employment would keep them away from Mass. Is this true, or just the ramblings of some disgruntled Catholic after “the change” (Vatican II)?
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I think its fair to say that the Church had no idea how popular the Saturday afternoon and early evening masses would become when they were started. The intention was always that anyone who wanted to attend at the anticipated mass could do so, regardless of their employmentary situation.

Its been a success, no doubt, as the idea has been copied by some of our protestant friends who sometimes have worship services on Saturday evening as well.
 
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Kielbasi:
The intention was always that anyone who wanted to attend at the anticipated mass could do so, regardless of their employmentary situation.
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Thanks!
 
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chuffle:
So, actually, what makes the Liturgy satisfy the Sunday obligation is the intention of the participant…am I correct with this, or do I have it all wrong?
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I’m not sure what you mean but no special intention is necessary. You don’t need to for example have the intention of fulfilling your Sunday or holy day obligation in order to fulfill it. Suppose for instance that you went to Mass on Sunday not for the purpose of fulfilling your Sunday obligation but just to please a relative who had been nagging you to attend Mass – then that would fulfill your Sunday obligation even though it was not your intention to fulfill it (maybe you aren’t even aware of its existence – you would still fulfill it).
Now, being lazy tonight and not wanting to do another search, I have another question. Somewhere I read (and it was way back, a long time ago…in the 1970’s, perhaps) that the Saturday evening vigil Mass was never intended to become as popular as it is, with every parish offering one. The original intent was for selected churches throughout the diocese to offer the Mass for those whose Sunday employment would keep them away from Mass. Is this true, or just the ramblings of some disgruntled Catholic after “the change” (Vatican II)?
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I have heard things slightly similar to that but I don’t know if any of it is true.
 
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tuopaolo:
You don’t need to for example have the intention of fulfilling your Sunday or holy day obligation in order to fulfill it. Suppose for instance that you went to Mass on Sunday not for the purpose of fulfilling your Sunday obligation but just to please a relative who had been nagging you to attend Mass – then that would fulfill your Sunday obligation even though it was not your intention to fulfill it (maybe you aren’t even aware of its existence – you would still fulfill it).
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Hmmmmm…interesting. Thanks for your help.

Joe
 
Our Bishop doesn’t allow any afternoon or evening Sunday masses so it is in keeping with the sundown to sundown approach.

Swiss Guard said:
I find it amazing that an authority such as yourself is constantly wrong. I’m sure you’ll accuse me of slander again and I’ll tell you I can’t be guilty of slander on this or any forum. You see, slander refers to the SPOKEN WORD while libel refers to the WRITTEN WORD. So, if you’re going to accuse me of doing something, make sure you know what you’re talking about.

I’m sure I’m also being to critical of you. To that I say, I’m being too (the correct spelling) critical of you. To is a verb that denotes movement, whereas too means excessive. Too can mean also as well. Just thought you could use a grammar lesson.
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My gosh :eek: what is all this about?
 
Saturday wedding masses usually do not use the readings for the Sunday mass, therefore even if they are later, they are not considered keeping your Sunday obligation of mass attendance.

However, if a wedding is performed on a given Sunday, they may not use readings normally selected for a wedding, rather the readings for that Sunday, therefore this wedding mass then would meet the Sunday obligation to attend mass.
 
Hmmmmmm again…I guess that I was correct in my original thought, that the Saturday wedding Mass does not satisfy one’s Sunday obligation.

Thanks,

Joe
 
Here is the canon law:
Canon 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.
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Here is what the CLSA New Commentary has to say:
The obligation to participate in the Mass may be satisfied at any time during the twenty-four hours of the feast day itself, or on the evening before it. “Evening” should be understood as anytime from 4:00pm onward. The legislator uses the word “evening” (vesper), not “afternoon” (post meridiem); in keeping with the proper meaning of the word (cf. c. 17), an afternoon Mass before 4:00 is not an evening Mass and does not satisfy the obligation. The precept may be satisfied at any Catholic Mass, i.e., not only when the texts are those of the Sunday or holy day. For example, attendance at a wedding Mass after 4:00 on a Saturday fulfills the Sunday obligation. The Mass must be celebrated in a Catholic rite, i.e., in the liturgical rite of any Catholic church sui iuris, but not in a church which is not in full communion with the Catholic Church, although using a Catholic liturgical rite. The former Ecumenical Directory of 1967 granted a privilege permitting Catholics to fulfill their Sunday and holy day obligation at the divine liturgy of a separated Eastern church. This privilege was suppressed in the 1993 Directory for the Application of the Principles and Norms on Ecumenism.
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Catholic2003:
Here is the canon law:

Here is what the CLSA New Commentary has to say:
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IIRC, British canon lawyers argue that “evening” is to taken to mean any time after noon. Do you know what their argument is versus the CLSA? (which is of course American)
 
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tuopaolo:
IIRC, British canon lawyers argue that “evening” is to taken to mean any time after noon. Do you know what their argument is versus the CLSA? (which is of course American)
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The commentary I quoted from was written in 2000, after the Canon Law Society of Great Britain and Ireland’s 1995 Canon Law: Letter and Spirit, so the text I quoted was essentially a rebuttal of the “any time after noon” position.

I’m not familiar with the arguments in favor of the “noon” theory. Next time I am by the law library, I will check out the footnotes of the British Commentary for the CLSGB&I’s stance.
 
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Catholic2003:
The commentary I quoted from was written in 2000, after the Canon Law Society of Great Britain and Ireland’s 1995 Canon Law: Letter and Spirit, so the text I quoted was essentially a rebuttal of the “any time after noon” position.

I’m not familiar with the arguments in favor of the “noon” theory. Next time I am by the law library, I will check out the footnotes of the British Commentary for the CLSGB&I’s stance.
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Thanks. Please remember to post what you find out here when you get the chance 🙂
 
OK, I have learned something tonight, as I always questioned the attending of a late wedding Mass in order to fulfill one’s Sunday obligation. A friend of mine’s mother always checks the church bulletin to see if there is a 4:00 wedding that she can sit in on so that she does not have to wait for the 6:00 anticipated Liturgy that her parish offers.
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Yeah. I used to do that too. Then I would go the reception for the free hootch. I stopped doing it because I was spending more on gifts than the convience was worth. :whacky:
 
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tuopaolo:
IIRC, British canon lawyers argue that “evening” is to taken to mean any time after noon. Do you know what their argument is versus the CLSA? (which is of course American)
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wasn’t there something about evening is when holding a black thread at arms length can’t be seen?
 
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katherine2:
wasn’t there something about evening is when holding a black thread at arms length can’t be seen?
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I’ve never heard of this. The CLSA got the 4pm time from Pope Pius XII’s apostolic constitution Christus Dominus:
Rule VI. If the circumstance calls for it as necessary, We grant to the local Ordinaries the right to permit the celebration of Mass in the evening, as we said, but in such wise that the Mass shall not begin before four o’clock in the afternoon, on holy days of obligation still observed, on those which formerly were observed, on the first Friday of every month, and also on those days on which solemn celebrations are held with a large attendance, and also, in addition to these days, on one day a week; with the requirement that the priest observe a fast of three hours from solid food and alcoholic beverages, and of one hour from non-alcoholic beverages.
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This is taken as an indication that “evening” means “4pm or after”.
 
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Catholic2003:
I’ve never heard of this. The CLSA got the 4pm time from Pope Pius XII’s apostolic constitution Christus Dominus:

This is taken as an indication that “evening” means “4pm or after”.
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Hmm that seems to me to indicate the opposite, that evening can be before 4 PM but in that document the pope for that particular purpose restricts it to 4 PM and after.
 
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tuopaolo:
Hmm that seems to me to indicate the opposite, that evening can be before 4 PM but in that document the pope for that particular purpose restricts it to 4 PM and after.
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Perhaps that is where the noon theory comes from. I should be visiting the law library again on June 2; I will check out the British Commentary then.
 
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