Sunday Mass Obligation

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tuopaolo:
Hmm that seems to me to indicate the opposite, that evening can be before 4 PM but in that document the pope for that particular purpose restricts it to 4 PM and after.
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I don’t think so. In the quote, the Holy Father says the phrase “four o’clock in the afternoon”. That seems to me a strong indication (at least in this translation) that 4pm is afternoon, and not evening.
 
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Almeria:
I don’t think so. In the quote, the Holy Father says the phrase “four o’clock in the afternoon”. That seems to me a strong indication (at least in this translation) that 4pm is afternoon, and not evening.
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You are presupposing though that evening is exclusive of afternoon which pressuposition actually ends up being contradicted by the fact that four o’clock is considered by him as BOTH evening and afternoon. Four o’clock is not before o’clock and thus would be a time “in the evening” “not before four o’clock” yet it would also be as you note “in the afternoon.”
 
Saturday Mass is a non-Catholic concession of the Post conciliar Church. That being said, it is permitted.

IMHO, one should keep Sunday Holy and attend Mass, attending Saturday Mass only in grave circumstances.
 
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aspergesme:
IMHO, one should keep Sunday Holy and attend Mass, attending Saturday Mass only in grave circumstances.
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Your “HO” is contrary to current church teaching. The option to attend a Vigil Mass has nothing to do with the presence of “grave circumstances”. Nothing at all.
 
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rcn:
Your “HO” is contrary to current church teaching. The option to attend a Vigil Mass has nothing to do with the presence of “grave circumstances”. Nothing at all.
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Church teaching allows people to have opinions 😛
 
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tuopaolo:
You are presupposing though that evening is exclusive of afternoon which pressuposition actually ends up being contradicted by the fact that four o’clock is considered by him as BOTH evening and afternoon. Four o’clock is not before o’clock and thus would be a time “in the evening” “not before four o’clock” yet it would also be as you note “in the afternoon.”
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I think you are right. I’m hesistant to jump into latin here. But is seems to me the pope would have written four o’clock “post meridiem” , to which we abbreviate 4:00 “pm”. as we write 11:00 PM.
 
I have been attending Saturday Vigil Mass for years so that I can do other things on Sundays like laying around the house all morning and then go out to lunch and do some shopping. The only time that I go to Sunday Morning Mass is on Easter Sunday and when I am busy on Saturday afternoon.
 
The earliest “Sunday” mass I ever went to was 2:30 “Saturday afternoon” at the Guardian Angel’s Cathedral on the strip in Las Vegas. The church was packed…standing room only all the way out the doors and into the balcony. I called the office before attending and the receptionist said Las Vegas had special permission for the early mass to accomodate the tourists.
 
rcn,

Is there something wrong with going to Saturday Vigil Mass instead of Sunday Morning Mass in order to do other things on Sunday? Saturday Vigil Mass fulfills the Sunday Mass obligation. Or don’t you believe that?
 
I honor God FIRST.

I take great spiritual pleasure in praying the Office of First Vespers and then going to Holy Mass to dedicated my time to God. After, I worship God, then I start by relaxation.
 
Well, I’m back from the law library, but I can’t say that I’m any more enlightened. Here is what the CLSGB&I commentary has to say for canon 1248:
what is ‘the evening of the previous day’? Despite the view of some commentators that this should be interpreted as beginning only at 1400 hours (2 pm) on that day, it is the firm view of this commentary that the evening of the previous day begins at midday (12 noon) on that day itself. In some dioceses there is a local regulation to the effect that the so-called vigil or anticipated Mass may not be celebrated before, say, 5 pm or 6 pm: this is normally for pastoral reasons, e.g. to facilitate weddings or funerals in parish or other churches. Those regulations do not in any way concern the time prescribed for fulfilling the obligation to assist at Mass: thus e.g. if in such a diocese a person were to attend a nuptial Mass in the early afternoon on a Saturday, that person would thereby have fulfilled the obligation of #1 of this canon. When a vigil Mass properly so called is in fact celebrated ‘on the evening of the previous day’, it is to be the Mass liturgically proper to the following day, implying a homily, prayers of the faithful, etc. It is to be noted, however, that when a Sunday and another holyday of obligation occur on two successive days, the assistance at no more than an evening Mass on the first of two such days does not fulfill the dual obligation.
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The footnote for the 2pm theory is to Chiappetta, Il Codice di Diritto Canonico: Commento Giuridico-Pastorale, volume II, n. 4087, Naples, 1988.
 
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Timidity:
Best explanation I’ve heard is that it’s in keeping with the ancient Hebrew way of counting days.
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I thought it was for conveniance for people who dont like to wake up on Sunday morning :confused:.
 
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Catholic2003:
Well, I’m back from the law library, but I can’t say that I’m any more enlightened. Here is what the CLSGB&I commentary has to say for canon 1248:

The footnote for the 2pm theory is to Chiappetta, Il Codice di Diritto Canonico: Commento Giuridico-Pastorale, volume II, n. 4087, Naples, 1988.
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I wonder what argument there is for the 2pm theory. Even though there didn’t seem to be any substantial argument advanced in what you quoted, reading it has convinced me that the noon theory is correct. Thanks for sharing this and share with us anything else you find or your own thoughts at your leisure!
 
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tuopaolo:
I wonder what argument there is for the 2pm theory.
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Good question. Maybe a compromise between the noon theory and the 4pm theory?
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tuopaolo:
Even though there didn’t seem to be any substantial argument advanced in what you quoted, reading it has convinced me that the noon theory is correct. Thanks for sharing this and share with us anything else you find or your own thoughts at your leisure!
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I’m always glad to share what I know. I had been speculating that the noon theory came from using canon 18 (strict interpretation of restrictions) as the rule for interpreting canon 1248, analogous to how the CLSA uses canon 17 (proper meaning of words interpretation) to come up with the 4pm theory. But the CLSGB&I commentary didn’t lend any support to this speculation of mine.
 
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aspergesme:
Saturday Mass is a non-Catholic concession of the Post conciliar Church. That being said, it is permitted.

IMHO, one should keep Sunday Holy and attend Mass, attending Saturday Mass only in grave circumstances.
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It is actually something that resounds to the earliest church, which was Jewish. Unless you consider the earliest church, which was Jewish, to not be Catholic?
 
It is also important to note that the Vigil Mass on Saturday must use the prayers and readings of the mass for Sunday.

matt
 
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