Sunday Mass readings / commentary (Pedestination? / OSAS? / God will wipe away all their tears)

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April 25, 2010
Fourth Sunday of Easter


Acts 13:14, 43-52

Paul and Barnabas continued on from Perga
and reached Antioch in Pisidia.
On the sabbath they entered the synagogue and took their seats.
Many Jews and worshipers who were converts to Judaism
followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them
and urged them to remain faithful to the grace of God.

On the following sabbath almost the whole city gathered
to hear the word of the Lord.
When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy
and with violent abuse contradicted what Paul said.
Both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said,
“It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first,
but since you reject it
and condemn yourselves as unworthy of eternal life,
we now turn to the Gentiles.
For so the Lord has commanded us,
I have made you a light to the Gentiles,
that you may be an instrument of salvation
to the ends of the earth.”


The Gentiles were delighted when they heard this
and glorified the word of the Lord.
All who were destined for eternal life came to believe,
and the word of the Lord continued to spread
through the whole region.
The Jews, however, incited the women of prominence who were worshipers
and the leading men of the city,
stirred up a persecution against Paul and Barnabas,
and expelled them from their territory.
So they shook the dust from their feet in protest against them,
and went to Iconium.
The disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit.

Ps 100:1-2, 3, 5Responsorial PsalmR. (3c) We are his people, the sheep of his flock.
or:
R. Alleluia.

or:
R. Alleluia.
The LORD is good:
his kindness endures forever,
and his faithfulness, to all generations.
R. We are his people, the sheep of his flock.
or:
R. Alleluia.

Rev 7:9, 14b-17

John, had a vision of a great multitude,
which no one could count,
from every nation, race, people, and tongue.
They stood before the throne and before the Lamb,
wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

Then one of the elders said to me,
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
they have washed their robes
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


“For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne
will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”


Jn 10:27-30GospelJ

Jesus said:
“My sheep hear my voice;
I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
No one can take them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all,
and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.
The Father and I are one.”

.

some say that the psg about how no one can take them from Him means OnceSavedAlwaysSaved but notice it does not say that no THING can take them from him… that thing being SIN… also it doesn’t say that the person him or herself cannot take themselves from Him… (and a person does when he/she sins)

Predestination: It seems that the psg in Acts would support pre-d but not when when u read it in context with the rest of Scipture and the teachings of the Church

All who were destined for eternal life came to believe***,

i believe this means that all who are predisposed to listen to God came to believe…

Everyone is predisposed to listen to God when they are born… .children are very open to God and naturally close to Him… which is why Jesus said we must become like children to enter the Kingdom of Heavne… but some lose this predisposition through sin and sometimes one sin leads to another and then another and … then the soul is lost…

even so, where there is life there is hope… There is no unforgivable sin except the one that is not repented of… (not sure the Catholic Church would support this exact wording but i tend to think she would)
 
Nicely done…thank you. Also my “thanks” to kepha1 for the link to predestination scriptures…it cleared up more than just today’s Readings.

Pax Christi
 
can you sum up for those of us who don’t have time for all that reading (i-net reading)…
The following is a quote from one of the links that describes the basic truths all Catholics agree with regarding predestination:

They are: (1) Predestination to the first grace is not because God foresaw our naturally good works, nor is the beginning of salutary acts due to natural causes; (2) predestination to glory is not because God foresaw we would continue in the performance of supernaturally meritorious acts apart from the special gift of final perseverance; (3) complete predestination, in so far as it comprises the whole series of graces from the first up to glorification, is gratuitous or previous to foreseen merits.

Predestination is not identical to God’s foreknowledge, which is the error of Arminianism and is a mistake many Catholics often make. In other words, predestination is not merely God peering into the future and seeing who responds to His grace and who doesn’t and then elects those he foresaw would respond to His grace. In other words, God plays a very passive role. He simply confirms mans choices. That’s debunked in the 2nd and 3rd principle listed above. In the Catholic understanding of predestination… whether it’s Thomism/ Augustinianism or Molinism/ Congruism, God plays a far more active role.

To be continued…

God bless,
Michael
 
The following is a quote from one of the links that describes the basic truths all Catholics agree with regarding predestination:

They are: (1) Predestination to the first grace is not because God foresaw our naturally good works, nor is the beginning of salutary acts due to natural causes; (2) predestination to glory is not because God foresaw we would continue in the performance of supernaturally meritorious acts apart from the special gift of final perseverance; (3) complete predestination, in so far as it comprises the whole series of graces from the first up to glorification, is gratuitous or previous to foreseen merits.

Predestination is not identical to God’s foreknowledge, which is the error of Arminianism and is a mistake many Catholics often make. In other words, predestination is not merely God peering into the future and seeing who responds to His grace and who doesn’t and then elects those he foresaw would respond to His grace. In other words, God plays a very passive role. He simply confirms mans choices. That’s debunked in the 2nd and 3rd principle listed above. In the Catholic understanding of predestination… whether it’s Thomism/ Augustinianism or Molinism/ Congruism, God plays a far more active role.

To be continued…

God bless,
Michael
thanks… always been a little confused about how Catholics could believe in predest…

but you have to define terms when speaking of this…

i dont believe that God looks into the future and says this person will accept me… this one wont… that would take away from free will… and saying this does NOT take away from God’s omniscience…

He knows the future o nly in the sense that He knows what we humans are likely to do…due to our sinfulness and selfishness… what we likely to choose… He does not know in advance what we WILL choose… He just knows that it is… say likely that …someone not raised Catholic will have a harder time finding Jesus than someone who has been (menaing someone raised w/ o .any religion… stuf like that…
do you agree? i’v been in a few arguments about this kind of thng
 
thanks… always been a little confused about how Catholics could believe in predest…

but you have to define terms when speaking of this…

i dont believe that God looks into the future and says this person will accept me… this one wont… that would take away from free will… and saying this does NOT take away from God’s omniscience…

He knows the future o nly in the sense that He knows what we humans are likely to do…due to our sinfulness and selfishness… what we likely to choose… He does not know in advance what we WILL choose… He just knows that it is… say likely that …someone not raised Catholic will have a harder time finding Jesus than someone who has been (menaing someone raised w/ o .any religion… stuf like that…
do you agree? i’v been in a few arguments about this kind of thng
Hello distracted. That is not the Catholic understanding of foreknowledge. God infallibly forsees what will happen. He either knows or doesn’t know. He cannot know what will “likely” happen because that means He does not really know what will happen, thus denying his omniscience. God does not make “intelligent guesses.” That’s very close to a modern day heresy known as Open Theism.

God Bless,
Michael.
 
Hello distracted. That is not the Catholic understanding of foreknowledge. God infallibly forsees what will happen. He either knows or doesn’t know. He cannot know what will “likely” happen because that means He does not really know what will happen, thus denying his omniscience. God does not make “intelligent guesses.” That’s very close to a modern day heresy known as Open Theism.

God Bless,
Michael.
sorry b ut i dont agree that this is the Catholic position…

and until i get a better explanation i am not going to accept what u seem to be trying to say… (or actually saying… whatever)

I’v been in situations that i honestly did not know which way i would go… I knew from Scipture and the Church which way i SHOULD go… but that didn’t mean i was going to choose that way…

in the Word it says that we are gods… we have the ability to choose every step of the way…

i do not accept that God knows we are going to do this or that… He knows who is committed to Him and who is not… but people who are committed can become un-committed… choice… that’s what life is all about…

I’m sure most Christains have been tempted to go away from their faith for various reasons…

some resist… some dont … some resist then go back… some dont… and til the very end we have choice…

we are “gods”
 
sorry b ut i dont agree that this is the Catholic position…

and until i get a better explanation i am not going to accept what u seem to be trying to say… (or actually saying… whatever)
That is the Catholic position. Read the section of Divine Knowledge of the following artcile of the Catholic encyclopedia:

newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IID1

And the Catholic dictionary on omniscience states:

**By the same knowledge of vision, God also foresees the future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty. As taught by the Church, “All things are naked and open to His eyes, even those things that will happen through the free actions of creatures” (Denzinger 3003). The future free actions foreseen by God follow infallibly not because God substitutes his will for the free wills of his creatures but because he does not interfere with the freedom that he foresees creatures will exercise. (Etym. Latin omnis, all + scire, to know.) **

God infallibley knoww what free choices we will make before we make them. What you argue here is not in accordance with Catholic teaching.

God Bless,
Michael
 
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