Sunday Obligation Question

[ac_claire]

I have a question that I would like your thoughts on. I live in a town that only has one Catholic parish (not TLM). The priest of the parish is very liberal. He changes the liturgy by adding things that aren’t suppose to be there, taking things out that are suppose to be there, and changing the words of the prayers (even the Eucharistic Prayers). Masses there are very casual and irreverent. He even many times teaches things during his homily that are contrary to the Catholic Faith. I have no doubt that the Masses are valid, but they are clearly illicit from all of the abuses.

My wife and I also have four children (ages 9, 5, 2, and 5 months), and we don’t want them to be exposed to these things. We don’t want them to grow up thinking that this is how Mass is suppose to be celebrated, and we don’t want them to be exposed and influenced to some of the wrong things that this priest says and teaches. We’re afraid that it will harm their faith.

Now, my question is am I obligated to attend an illicit Mass such as this to fulfill my Sunday obligation? I wrote to the Saint Joseph Foundation (who are Canon Law experts) about this situation, and they responded that Canon Law does not address this issue, since it assumes that every Mass that is celebrated within the Church is licit.

So since Canon Law doesn’t address this issue, what are your thoughts on this?

Since you asked for personal thoughts…I think you definitely need to go to this Mass if it’s really the only way you can fulfill your Sunday obligation. It may be riddled with liturgical abuses and liberalism, but from what you’ve said it’s still (somehow ) a valid Mass.

But I would definitely look into finding a better parish. Even if it’s a little bit of a commute, seems like the sacrifice might be worth it just once a week you know? I used to take a bus across the city, an hour each way, to make it to the Cathedral here because my closer local parish was similar to what you described, and it just made me way too sad.

Where is the next closest orthodox Catholic parish to you?

 

[ProVobis]

Didn’t we all recently learn that the Limbo of the Unbaptized is not really Church teaching?

But dogs going to heaven is?

 

[ProVobis]

I used to take a bus across the city, an hour each way, to make it to the Cathedral here because my closer local parish was similar to what you described, and it just made me way too sad.

Very good. I remember once attending Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago, a show of hands was asked of people as to whether they were from outside the parish. About 80% from my estimate and I ran into some old friends there as well. My intent is not to degrade those who go to their local parishes, but it goes to show the extent of inconvenience people will go to when they’re serious about their faith.

 

[paperwight]

You’re joking, right? The nuns aren’t capable of teaching the faith? How about monks or lay teachers? You might want to face them and tell so yourself.

As a matter of fact, I wasn’t thinking of school-based teaching at all, but rather the odd things that get taught in the family by parents and grandparents.

For instance, my mother in law taught her children that if a Catholic ate meat on a Friday, they would go to Hell, along with non-Catholics. No ifs, no buts, no mention of last-minute repentance, or exemptions in the case of starvation. It was the automatic result. She had been told it was what the Church taught, and so she passed it on as truth. (She also told them that if they put a pair of shoes on the bed, someone in the house would die within the year - I don’t know where that dear little titbit of superstition came from, or how she squared it with belief in a just God, but there you go).

My daughter-in-law was told by her Spanish parents that the church taught that married couples could not receive Holy Communion if they had made love the previous night. Yes, Jansenism is alive and well.

Or think of the statements that keep cropping up in these forae that are contrary to the Church’s actual teaching. For instance, only a priest’s hands can touch the Blessed Sacrament, the Pill is always sinful, even for chaste girls who have been prescribed it for crippling pain, COTT is superior to CITH, women should always wear a skirt or dress to Mass …

By the way, I would hope that no adult is scared of facing monks, nuns, layteachers or whoever if they are in the wrong, and telling them so. And before you jump to their defence, notice I said ‘IF’ they are in the wrong. I am not saying that any of them that you know or I know are in the wrong. I am saying that, as a general principle, being scared of them is not the desirable mindset of an adult.

 

[Spirithound]

But dogs going to heaven is?

Did a quick search of this thread; the only mention of dogs was from otjm “that dog don’t hunt”…

 

[Spirithound]

(She also told them that if they put a pair of shoes on the bed, someone in the house would die within the year - I don’t know where that dear little titbit of superstition came from, or how she squared it with belief in a just God, but there you go).

Clearly this is the natural result of little Tommy getting his nice clean duvet all muddy…Mumsy would kill him herself!

 

[paperwight]

Clearly this is the natural result of little Tommy getting his nice clean duvet all muddy…Mumsy would kill him herself!

Thanks for the funny thought, Spirithound!

I’d have accused my other half of pulling my leg, but I witnessed it myself one day, when I was assembling clothes on the bed before I packed them.

She practically leapt at the bed to grab them up, she was so bothered.

 

[ProVobis]

Did a quick search of this thread; the only mention of dogs was from otjm “that dog don’t hunt”…

So you’re going through this thread only for Church teachings?

I think we better move on.

I see you’re some kind of admin or something and I can’t put you on ignore as I did with otjm a long time ago. So I’ll leave the thread under such CA threat. Good luck with your limbo argument.

 

[Mrs_V]

Very good. I remember once attending Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago, a show of hands was asked of people as to whether they were from outside the parish. About 80% from my estimate and I ran into some old friends there as well. My intent is not to degrade those who go to their local parishes, but it goes to show the extent of inconvenience people will go to when they’re serious about their faith.

My family drives 35-40 mins to get to the parish that we feel is the most beneficial to us and our children. We pass two others to get there but it is worth the drive to us. The priest is very strict and no nonsense. When he gave a long and blunt (but also loving) homily about the evil of artificial contraception I knew we had made the right choice.

 

[Spirithound]

So you’re going through this thread only for Church teachings?

I think we better move on.

I see you’re some kind of admin or something and I can’t put you on ignore as I did with otjm a long time ago. So I’ll leave the thread under such CA threat. Good luck with your limbo argument.

I’m sorry, that I have been pedantic/humorous/progressive enough to warrant an ignoring.

But where are we going with this? Paperwight was suggesting that some people come here with a mistaken idea of what the Church teaches. You called him a progressive. I suggested Limbo as something that many people thought was Church teaching, but it turns out it isn’t. Then you said something about dogs, which is the first reference of dogs that you saw on this thread, since you have ignored otjm. So that means you are setting up a straw man argument; nobody else was talking about dogs going to heaven. Please help me understand?

btw, I am not an admin. I don’t know why you can’t ignore me, but… there is no threat to you on my regard.

 

[petite_foireuse]

I like some things in this thread - pray for the priest, and ask Father Serpa, who tends to give good prudential advice (ok, he won’t give you the typical trad answer that Ordinary Rite Masses are invalid or illicit per se, if that’s what you’re hoping for, but that’s not what your post sounds like On the other hand I do wish not every single thread on the trad forum ended up in a Latin-Mass-only vs. Conservatists fight :-((

I think as the father of a family, you need a lot of that prudence… First, I think you may need to make a distinction between you & your wife, your oldest children, and your younger ones. Adults are subject to the Sunday obligation, 2-year olds and 5-months babies aren’t, a mature 9-year old probably is and a 5-year may or may not be, depending on whether the parents think the child has reached the age of reason.

Small children are very impressionable, but you can reason with older ones and this might be a good opportunity to start teaching them that Faith isn’t about feelings (the parish Mass may be valid even if its celebrated irreverently).

You and your older daughter can be expected to drive some distance on Sundays to Mass (SSPX priests say up to an hour as a benchmark, I haven’t heard any other opinions), but it may not be necessary to wake the small ones so early, at least not every week.

Under similar circumstances, I think I would come up with something like you and your wife alternatively going to the parish Mass with your oldest daughter every week OR driving whatever distance is reasonable, the other staying at home with the younger kids (and sanctifying Sunday morning in an appropriate way with them), and additionally taking the whole family out to Mass as a Sunday “outing” every so often, on Feast Days or something.

I’m remembering two anecdotes here that marked me:

1. Saint Thérèse of Lisieux’s story about the “blessed bread” her sisters brought back from Mass for her on Sundays. Obviously her parents, as devote as they were, did not consider it necessary for a small child to go every week.
2. A modern-day family father in a non-christian country who reported booking flights and hotel rooms for his family to celebrate Christmas abroad, making this into their yearly vacation. Surely we can’t all imitate that, but it’s an example of what sacrifices the Mass is worth. I like to keep it in mind when I “don’t feel like getting up” on Sundays.