Sunday Obligation, simple question

[Kmon23]

Does Sunday Obligation technically start once one is received into the church at the Easter Vigil or when someone identifies oneself as a Catholic and plans on joining the Church as soon as possible?

While I was travelling in Europe I missed Mass and couldn’t find one nearby that I could make in time when I searched for a church on Sunday morning. However, I feel that I sinned because maybe if I planned a couple days before, I could have properly planned everything to be able to go to Mass on time, and even though I was sick it’s not like I can’t get out of bed and go. So have I sinned at all in this scenario, even venial sin?

 

[Elizium23]

You are not bound by the laws and precepts of the Church until you actually become a member through a formal act.

 

[Nan_S]

Undoubtedly, however, you will travel in the future. If it not possible for you to get to mass when traveling, the Church recognizes it. You are not called to perform an impossibility. However you are expected to make every reasonable effort to attend.

When traveling with my family we make a special point of pre-planning our Sunday activities to include mass, just like we pre-plan to eat at certain restaurants and visit certain attractions. I have been to mass at so many beautiful Catholic churches: next to a beach, in an ancient cathedral, at an Indian mission, in a National Park, at a shrine, at a historic landmark. Finding new churches has become part of the traveling adventure.

I can tell you that there has never been a time I regretted finding a church while on the road, even if I had to get up one or two hours early to do it. If I can get going early enough to be at Universal Studios at 7:30 AM so that I can enter the park when the gates open at 8:00, there’s absolutely no reason why I can’t go to an 8:00 AM mass.

Early masses have the side benefit of giving you a chance to celebrate with the Lord, give thanks for blessings received, pray for a safe return flight, get breakfast, and get checked out of the hotel in time to catch the airport bus.

I found a GREAT iPhone app for Catholic travelers. It’s called The Catholic Directory - Mass Times. This has a comprehensive directory of churches throughout both the United States and Canada. I used this app two weeks ago when I was on the road to find a nearby church with a mass time that worked out perfectly for us, and with two finger taps I had turn-by-turn directions from the hotel as well. I strongly recommend it.

 

[AndrewRuki]

Does Sunday Obligation technically start once one is received into the church at the Easter Vigil or when someone identifies oneself as a Catholic and plans on joining the Church as soon as possible?

While I was travelling in Europe I missed Mass and couldn’t find one nearby that I could make in time when I searched for a church on Sunday morning. However, I feel that I sinned because maybe if I planned a couple days before, I could have properly planned everything to be able to go to Mass on time, and even though I was sick it’s not like I can’t get out of bed and go. So have I sinned at all in this scenario, even venial sin?

Peace be with you Brother/sister, Kmon.

Being a Christian is knowing that there is the MOST LOVING person, who you call “Father”, loving you and delighting in every step that you take on His earth. In his hand is not a “whip” or a “Punishing Rod”, but, Love. The purest, deepest and warmest Love. Do you think that He will be “Frothing Mad” at you for missing a Holy Mass? Me thinks, Not.

During your prayers, ask Him for forgiveness. Later, when you are adequately prepared, make your confession and receive absolution. Most of all, “Be still (relax) and know that He is God.”

Dominus vobiscum.

 

[Elizium23]

Peace be with you Brother/sister, Kmon.

Being a Christian is knowing that there is the MOST LOVING person, who you call “Father”, loving you and delighting in every step that you take on His earth. In his hand is not a “whip” or a “Punishing Rod”, but, Love. The purest, deepest and warmest Love. Do you think that He will be “Frothing Mad” at you for missing a Holy Mass? Me thinks, Not.

During your prayers, ask Him for forgiveness. Later, when you are adequately prepared, make your confession and receive absolution. Most of all, “Be still (relax) and know that He is God.”

Dominus vobiscum.

The OP is not Catholic. He has not sinned, so your advice to ask forgiveness and go to confession is wrong upon wrong.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Does Sunday Obligation technically start once one is received into the church at the Easter Vigil or when someone identifies oneself as a Catholic and plans on joining the Church as soon as possible?

While someone is in RCIA and preparing to become Catholic, I encourage them to live as much as possible as a Catholic and it sounds like that’s exactly what you’re doing. If you’re traveling you should check out available Mass times where you are visiting. But you are not yet Catholic and so are not yet held to the standard of attending Mass every Sunday. Don’t worry about it, just do your best.

 

[Jon_S_1]

You are not bound by the laws and precepts of the Church until you actually become a member through a formal act.

^^

This is correct.

Doesn’t mean you can’t impose the laws on yourself though.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The OP is not Catholic. He has not sinned, so your advice to ask forgiveness and go to confession is wrong upon wrong.

Your right, but keeping the sabbath is a commandment and grave matter to miss it. The OP obviously has a formed conscience to know this and should confess it if she chose not to give God his time during the week.

I know I confessed that before receiving my sacraments. I confessed because I selfishly chose to surf instead of mass. If the OP feels they sinned or may have sinned then she should confess it.

 

[AndrewRuki]

The OP is not Catholic. He has not sinned, so your advice to ask forgiveness and go to confession is wrong upon wrong.

Not quite true. According to your answer, ONLY a catholic can sin. The church teaches us what sin is and what is not. This is applied to everyone, regardless of whether they are catholic or not. There is also, another criteria. If you consider something a sin, even though it is not, and you do this, you have sinned.
Vise versa, if you consider something NOT a sin, even though it can be, and do this, you have not sinned.
Now, before you post something about murder and adultery, supposing these NOT sin, let me say this. My main aim was to show our brother/sister about the Love of God for him/her. Still if he/she feels the guilt, then he /she knows what to do.

Dominus vobiscum.

 

[Elizium23]

Not quite true. According to your answer, ONLY a catholic can sin. The church teaches us what sin is and what is not. This is applied to everyone, regardless of whether they are catholic or not. There is also, another criteria. If you consider something a sin, even though it is not, and you do this, you have sinned.
Vise versa, if you consider something NOT a sin, even though it can be, and do this, you have not sinned.
Now, before you post something about murder and adultery, supposing these NOT sin, let me say this. My main aim was to show our brother/sister about the Love of God for him/her. Still if he/she feels the guilt, then he /she knows what to do.

Dominus vobiscum.

Patently untrue. Canon Law binds only those who are Catholics. There are laws which bind us under the pain of mortal sin, and therefore there are things which non-Catholics can do without risking the commission of a sin. A non-Catholic can eat meat on Fridays without sinning. Are you with me so far? The Catholic law to attend Catholic Mass binds only Catholics. It is ridiculous to think that all those Methodists and Episcopalians are sinning merely by going to the wrong service. The OP is not Catholic, and the Church has no jurisdiction over her until she joins her. End of story.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Patently untrue. Canon Law binds only those who are Catholics. There are laws which bind us under the pain of mortal sin, and therefore there are things which non-Catholics can do without risking the commission of a sin. A non-Catholic can eat meat on Fridays without sinning. Are you with me so far? The Catholic law to attend Catholic Mass binds only Catholics. It is ridiculous to think that all those Methodists and Episcopalians are sinning merely by going to the wrong service. The OP is not Catholic, and the Church has no jurisdiction over her until she joins her. End of story.

So if I am in RCIA. And going to mass every Sunday and I believe it is a sin to miss mass. I can freely miss without sinning.

Perhaps if I am in RCIA and I learn abortion is sinful and I get one anyway I am not sinning since I am not officially catholic yet.

You are wrong.

Missing Sunday church is grave matter
The person is informed and accepts this truth.

If they choose to engage in grave matter anyway it is sin

 

[Elizium23]

So if I am in RCIA. And going to mass every Sunday and I believe it is a sin to miss mass. I can freely miss without sinning.

Perhaps if I am in RCIA and I learn abortion is sinful and I get one anyway I am not sinning since I am not officially catholic yet.

You are wrong.

Missing Sunday church is grave matter
The person is informed and accepts this truth.

If they choose to engage in grave matter anyway it is sin

.

Abortion is not a disciplinary precept of the Church. Abortion is grave matter everywhere. However, a non-Catholic in RCIA who procures an abortion will not incur an excommunication, because ONLY CATHOLICS ARE BOUND BY THE LAW OF THE CHURCH!

Are you seriously suggesting that Methodists who eat meat on Fridays are dirty sinners headed for Hell?

 

[Jon_S_1]

.

Abortion is not a disciplinary precept of the Church. Abortion is grave matter everywhere.

Are you seriously suggesting that Methodists who eat meat on Fridays are dirty sinners headed for Hell?

Are you saying one of the Ten Commandments to keep the sabbath is not something required of everyone?

It’s not grave matter to violate the commandments.

I am not saying the OP has to go to mass. But they have to go to church, and being that they have been welcomed into RCIA in the Catholic Church they should go there.

 

[Elizium23]

No, I’m saying that the OP admitted to missing Mass, not to profaning the Sabbath. Try to stay on topic.

 

[Jon_S_1]

No, I’m saying that the OP admitted to missing Mass, not to profaning the Sabbath. Try to stay on topic.

All of this is found in the section of the catechism detailing, not canon law, but the third commandment. The OP accepts and believes this therefore rejecting a truth she holds in her heart is to be in mortal sin by definition. This isn’t a recipe…or a legal court…this is about faith and the orientation of our hearts.

2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord’s Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church’s life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."110

"Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."111

2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age.112 The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful "not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another."113

Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer. . . . Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal. . . . We have often said: "This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it."114
2179 "A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop."115 It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist. The parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life: it gathers them together in this celebration; it teaches Christ’s saving doctrine; it practices the charity of the Lord in good works and brotherly love:

You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests.116
The Sunday obligation

2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."117 "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."118

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God’s holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

2183 "If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families."120

 

[Elizium23]

Once again, a Catholic law to attend a Catholic Mass is binding only on Catholics who are a part of the Church.

Reading the OP again, and her previous posts, I don’t see how you could possibly interpret her accident as a mortal sin. In fact she is showing early signs of scrupulosity, so I don’t think it’s going to help her to sling Catechism verses back and forth and insist she did something wrong. Being that she is not Catholic, I know this is hard for you to accept, but she is unable to go to Confession at this time anyway, so there is little she can do about a mortal sin other than worry about it until her First Confession.

As a Methodist, she has no specific law or teaching telling her what to do to keep the Sabbath holy. She can pray, read the Bible, go to a Methodist service, or whatever the Spirit directs her to do. I am assuming good faith in that she did something on Sunday other than go to the beach and work on her tan.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Once again, a Catholic law to attend a Catholic Mass is binding only on Catholics who are a part of the Church.

Reading the OP again, and her previous posts, I don’t see how you could possibly interpret her accident as a mortal sin. In fact she is showing early signs of scrupulosity, so I don’t think it’s going to help her to sling Catechism verses back and forth and insist she did something wrong. Being that she is not Catholic, I know this is hard for you to accept, but she is unable to go to Confession at this time anyway, so there is little she can do about a mortal sin other than worry about it until her First Confession.

I never said she was in mortal sin. The thread has turned a bit as you seem to insist only Catholics are culpable for sins.

Perhaps it’s better not to be catholic.

Either that or explain to me why ,

Someone believes A is a sin. The church person attends confirms A is a sin. Person commits A. Person does not sin.

How do you figure that!

 

[Elizium23]

You have conflated two different things. The commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is Divine Law. All people on earth are bound to abstain from servile work, to pray, and the dedicate the day to the Lord. The OP has given no indication that she violated this commandment.

For Catholics, keeping the Sabbath holy begins with Mass. It is the bare minimum to meet the commandment. Surely if we make it to Mass, but we go back to work and set our minds to profane things rather than prayer and Scripture, we have kept the Canon Law but still violated the commandment. That’s because they’re two different things. The law is in place to keep our eyes on the commandment, it’s a minimum prescription, much like Friday abstinence is the bare minimum that is done to observe penitential practices. The Church prescribes Mass and abstinence as a medicine to the faithful. However, the Church can only prescribe medicine for her own patients. The OP hasn’t had her insurance approved yet, so she can’t come for her first appointment. Once she begins seeing the doctor then she should follow her instructions, but until that time, the OP is free to self-medicate, or at least to observe the precepts according to the Methodist ecclesial community of which she is a member.

It’s laudable for her to want to be attending Mass, it’s great that she goes regularly while in RCIA, but it’s simply not a sin to miss it accidentally, and it’s not a sin for a non-Catholic anyway, and even if she did sin, she can’t confess it now, so why trouble her?

 

[Jon_S_1]

You have conflated two different things. The commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is Divine Law. All people on earth are bound to abstain from servile work, to pray, and the dedicate the day to the Lord. The OP has given no indication that she violated this commandment.

For Catholics, keeping the Sabbath holy begins with Mass. It is the bare minimum to meet the commandment. Surely if we make it to Mass, but we go back to work and set our minds to profane things rather than prayer and Scripture, we have kept the Canon Law but still violated the commandment. That’s because they’re two different things. The law is in place to keep our eyes on the commandment, it’s a minimum prescription, much like Friday abstinence is the bare minimum that is done to observe penitential practices. The Church prescribes Mass and abstinence as a medicine to the faithful. However, the Church can only prescribe medicine for her own patients. The OP hasn’t had her insurance approved yet, so she can’t come for her first appointment. Once she begins seeing the doctor then she should follow her instructions, but until that time, the OP is free to self-medicate, or at least to observe the precepts according to the Methodist ecclesial community of which she is a member.

It’s laudable for her to want to be attending Mass, it’s great that she goes regularly while in RCIA, but it’s simply not a sin to miss it accidentally, and it’s not a sin for a non-Catholic anyway, and even if she did sin, she can’t confess it now, so why trouble her?

Overall I agree with your post, but I would like a clarification.

If a catholic misses mass and instead keeps the divine law as you state it above, it is not a mortal sin involving grave matter according to what you state.

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

You are equating attending mass with a discipline of the church instead of an essential part of worshiping God on the “sabbath”. I think that is an error. It seems that going to church is an essential part of the commandment… Part of the divine law you mention binding to everyone. Yes, that may mean Methodist church for the OP, but it means go to church. Go worship God.

 

[AndrewRuki]

Patently untrue. Canon Law binds only those who are Catholics. There are laws which bind us under the pain of mortal sin, and therefore there are things which non-Catholics can do without risking the commission of a sin. A non-Catholic can eat meat on Fridays without sinning. Are you with me so far? The Catholic law to attend Catholic Mass binds only Catholics. It is ridiculous to think that all those Methodists and Episcopalians are sinning merely by going to the wrong service. The OP is not Catholic, and the Church has no jurisdiction over her until she joins her. End of story.

Hi Elizium23.
Your explanation makes good sense to me. I know that I am wrong to think of those others the way you mentioned, just because I am a Catholic.
I have learnt from you today. May you be blessed.
Dominus vobiscum.