Sunday Obligation

[nickybr38]

As a catholic you must attend mass every sunday by not doing so this family are doing wrong by their children. I notice on here in a lot of threads people worry about how things should be done and I must report to the bishop but I believe if you attend mass with a clear intention and a faithful heart you are doing the right thing. my advice is attend sunday mass.

Many of us are converts, I think. Us converts are tired of chaos, unpredictability and just in general no firm guidelines. We come into the Catholic Church hearing all the stories about how it’s the One True Church and blah blah… but then we find that even though there are guidelines and rules NOBODY follows them, which we often find disconcerting.

The trouble with the liturgical abuses going on in this particular parish is that they speak to a deeper misunderstanding of the Eucharist and complete disregard and disrespect for the Mass.

When people run up to the altar and dance around it without ANY concern or respect, that’s a problem.

When people lower a projection screen that COVERS the altar because the music has pride of place over the sacrifice, that’s a problem.

When people walk up to the altar and pluck Christ from the paten and pop Him into their mouth as if he’s just a cracker, that’s a problem.

I totally understand why this family is concerned and why they wouldn’t want their children exposed to this constant disregard and lack of reverence in the face of our Lord.

 

[Bookcat]

Many of us are converts, I think. Us converts are tired of chaos, unpredictability and just in general no firm guidelines. We come into the Catholic Church hearing all the stories about how it’s the One True Church but then we find that even though there are guidelines and rules NOBODY follows them, which we often find disconcerting…

I understand your dismay at encountering those who do not follow the Teachings or Liturgical norms as they ought but it is not that “nobody” follows them…such would be an exaggeration.

Thankfully that is not true. It is most certainly not true that “Nobody” follows them. The Church is all over the earth…and yes Christians - including Pastors live the Faith -including the Sacraments - as they have been given them. In faithfulness and love.

But yes there have been and there will be “abuses” and “errors” -but these are just that “abuses” and “errors”.
*
The same Church - has suffered greatly down through the ages with persons not living as they ought - from the pages of the New Testament down to today*. Once one sees that - yes one will be saddened etc that such goes on -but one will not be surprised. Jesus founded his Church and gave authority to his Church to teach etc but Jesus did not say all within that Church - even Pastors - would live as the disciples ought.

Just look at the Letters of Paul…

 

[nickybr38]

I understand your dismay at encountering those who do not follow the Teachings or Liturgical norms as they ought but it is not that “nobody” follows them…such would be an exaggeration.

Thankfully that is not true. It is most certainly not true that “Nobody” follows them. The Church is all over the earth…and yes Christians - including Pastors live the Faith -including the Sacraments - as they have been given them. In faithfulness and love.

But yes there have been and there will be “abuses” and “errors” -but these are just that “abuses” and “errors”.
*
The same Church - has suffered greatly down through the ages with persons not living as they ought - from the pages of the New Testament down to today*. Once one sees that - yes one will be saddened etc that such goes on -but one will not be surprised. Jesus founded his Church and gave authority to his Church to teach etc but Jesus did not say all within that Church - even Pastors - would live as the disciples ought.

Just look at the Letters of Paul…

True. But sometimes it can be very overwhelming and discouraging. Especially when you’re in a diocese that seems to be full of many cultural Catholics (who don’t seem to believe at all).

sigh

Anyway. Gotta shake it off and keep on keeping on!

 

[biffoqueen]

I do understand that perhaps each parish is different and do things in a different way but no matter where you go you will find fault I don’t mean you personally but in general. I live in Ireland and we on the whole are quiet traditional with mass but sometimes there are differences but again we need to attend mass and pray with purpose and meaning. it is rare here for people to receive the communion on the tongue its usually in the hand we rarely if ever drink the blood/wine and seldom would you see someone going to the altar for a blessing unless a young child and usually the priest will call them forward only the priest can give the blessing. my own parish is traditional and it is a lovely parish I love it. I hope this family get a new parish soon because they really need to be attending mass

 

[PrayPsalm51]

You are kind to care so much about this family. If the children are “very young” it really should not matter to the children’s formation at all. They are likely too young to notice or understand. If the young couple is bothered and the children are very young–before the age of reason–perhaps you could babysit once in awhile so they could travel to a more traditional church and have a nice lunch and return home refreshed. Young couples need this!!

 

[nickybr38]

UPDATE:

The family in question found a group that have broken off from the local parish and started their own Mass. They are now attending there. The mother assures me this group is not sedevacantist but I’m not sure what else they could be.

The group is formed entirely of traditional Catholics who feel the local diocese has fallen into heresy (which, in some cases, it has).

Anyway, please keep this family in their prayers.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

UPDATE:

The family in question found a group that have broken off from the local parish and started their own Mass. They are now attending there. The mother assures me this group is not sedevacantist but I’m not sure what else they could be.

The group is formed entirely of traditional Catholics who feel the local diocese has fallen into heresy (which, in some cases, it has).

Anyway, please keep this family in their prayers.

Hmmm, it probably is sedevacantist, but since I am in the same kind of situation myself I have the deepest sympathy for this family. Especially when one has young children, it’s heartbreaking. If you take them to the Masses where there are really awful abuses (Priest ad libbing even at the consecration, omissions of the creed every Sunday, etc), then the children absorb those abuses as ‘expected’ and when they are finally taken to valid, licit Masses they become confused, angry (if they LIKE the ‘fun’ Mass and see the other as ‘boring’), and start to think, "If my priest was wrong offering something important like Mass, **how can I trust ANY priest to be doing the right thing at any time?’

**These priests, even if they have good intentions (and we all know what those are often used to pave to the way to), will have so much to answer for, especially since the ‘way’, the right way, the true way, the only way, has been in place for centuries, right there, all the time --but for these priests, it wasn’t ‘good enough’ for them.

So I’m praying for the priests as well as for all of us who are suffering because of the disobedience of others. . .

May God have mercy on us all.

 

[WT1]

I’ve read through the thread and seen the response from the Apologist so it has been established and documented they are not absolved from the obligation.

There have been plenty of suggestions regarding talking to the priest and notifying the Bishop so that has been covered.

The next step is for this family to get involved, recruit Eucharistic Ministers and volunteer to step up and set an example of how to serve. This is a golden opportunity for them to create a ministry within their own parish and bring glory to God in the process. I don’t see anyway a priest would refuse the offer of assistance in helping distribute the Eucharist.

This situation can have a happy ending and they have the opportunity to set a great example for their children through service.

 

[27lw]

I’ve read through the thread and seen the response from the Apologist so it has been established and documented they are not absolved from the obligation.

There have been plenty of suggestions regarding talking to the priest and notifying the Bishop so that has been covered.

The next step is for this family to get involved, recruit Eucharistic Ministers and volunteer to step up and set an example of how to serve. This is a golden opportunity for them to create a ministry within their own parish and bring glory to God in the process. I don’t see anyway a priest would refuse the offer of assistance in helping distribute the Eucharist.

This situation can have a happy ending and they have the opportunity to set a great example for their children through service.

This would be interesting to see if this works. I have a feeling the priest would say that it’s not working out, because they don’t fit in with the parish culture, or something. I personally would be tempted to just watch EWTN Mass (instead of attending St. Groovy Parish) until things get straightened out. I know that is wrong, but I sure would be tempted.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I’ve read through the thread and seen the response from the Apologist so it has been established and documented they are not absolved from the obligation.

There have been plenty of suggestions regarding talking to the priest and notifying the Bishop so that has been covered.

The next step is for this family to get involved, recruit Eucharistic Ministers and volunteer to step up and set an example of how to serve. This is a golden opportunity for them to create a ministry within their own parish and bring glory to God in the process. I don’t see anyway a priest would refuse the offer of assistance in helping distribute the Eucharist.

This situation can have a happy ending and they have the opportunity to set a great example for their children through service.

Well, setting aside the fact that if you have young children, who is going to watch THEM while YOU serve, what do you do when Father TELLS them that in HIS parish they will self-administer the Eucharist because, “that’s the way we do it here”, for example?

Then they’re in the position of having to disobey Father (because self-intinction is forbidden).

And now instead of being semi anonymous in the congregation, they’re marked as ‘uncooperative’ and ‘holier than thou’.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Fr. Grondin’s answer is probably correct in most cases of abuses - most of the things to which I have been subjected over the years were not serious enough to outweigh the benefits of assisting at Mass. That being said, he cites no authority (other than, presumably, his priestly authority) to back up his case, and the Code of Canon Law (can. 844§2), against Father’s assertion, does provide for “moral impossibility” of approaching physically available ministers. If a Catholic who is otherwise capable of receiving the Eucharist may receive it in a non-Catholic Church due to the moral impossibility of approaching a Catholic minister, it would seem that there are at least extreme cases in which it may not be morally possible to attend Catholic Mass (the normal context in which the faithful receive the Eucharist).

Considering that the Church gives next to no guidance as to what constitutes moral impossibility and the obligation to participate in Mass on Sundays and holy days binds gravely, I would not act on this theoretical possibility guided solely by personal judgment (“no one is a judge in his own cause” holds especially true if we’re talking about excusing ourselves from obligations!) but would submit the question to someone who really knows the relevant canons well.

 

[EasterJoy]

I have encouraged her to contact the Bishop (which she has done) and am now encouraging her to contact the Holy See.

It’s hard to understand but we really have a … corrupt diocese here.

We have a Bishop who instructs the priests not to speak about abortion, gay marriage, homosexuality, etc. because it ‘offends’ parishioners.

We have a Bishop who has instructed the priests never to conduct Latin mass.

We have parishes who won’t display the crucifix because it’s ‘upsetting’.

We have parish councils who tell the priest what to do and threaten to have him ‘removed’ if he refuses to listen.

We have Masses where children and parishioners alike approach and dance around the altar with absolutely no regard to the holy.

We have a Bishop who has instructed the priests NOT to administer communion on the tongue (even for those who request it) because it’s divisive’.

I understand why this family no longer wishes to attend. I really do. It’s easy for me because I’m single and I can tell the difference between the divine and profane but when you have children in the mix TELLING them about the Mass isn’t enough when they see people being completely irreverent whenever they GO to the Mass.

Yes, contact the Holy See. Honestly, I would also go to the nearest faithful bishop that can be found, even if I had to travel a distance to see him, in order to get guidance about what to do and perhaps an advocate for the faithful of your diocese from among the episcopacy.

Still, that is only after I was certain that the rumors about what the bishop said have been independently confirmed. Sometimes, sadly, even priests misunderstand or misrepresent what they have been told by their bishop, or others misrepresent what pastors have said. Do not seek outside help until you have straight facts that leave you no other choice.

As to the original question, if a valid Mass is available, it is obligatory to attend. It is not obligatory to receive Holy Communion, but only liturgical abuses that would render the sacrament null would relieve us of the obligation to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days. It would be a great heartache, but there is wisdom in the law of the Church.

 

[WT1]

Well, setting aside the fact that if you have young children, who is going to watch THEM while YOU serve, what do you do when Father TELLS them that in HIS parish they will self-administer the Eucharist because, “that’s the way we do it here”, for example?

Then they’re in the position of having to disobey Father (because self-intinction is forbidden).

And now instead of being semi anonymous in the congregation, they’re marked as ‘uncooperative’ and ‘holier than thou’.

Point 1 - They can swap out and they will have to enlist help but since a group has already split off encouraging them to come back and all participate would be great start and I imagine the priest would be grateful that they returned.

Point 2 - Your making assumptions of why the priest is doing what he is doing when it is just as likely he couldn’t get anyone to help and made the choices he did out of frustration.

Point 3 - Who cares what people think and they are leaving so the logical course of action is to try whatever you can to change things in a positive way.

Point 4 - They are disobeying Father as it is how could they disobey any worse?

 

[nickybr38]

All of this discussion is entirely moot now. This family has made their choice. I cannot control them, I can only offer my prayers as they navigate a very, very, very rough parish.

I know many of you don’t understand because you live in areas where you have the luxury of just picking up and going to a different parish but where WE live that isn’t an option.