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patricius79
Guest
My friend is using Romans 14:5 to argue that the Sabbath is not obligatory in the N.T. What do we say to this?
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jericho777
Guest
Saturday Lev 23:23 is declared in scripture as the sabbath whereas Sunday is the Lord’s day Acts 20:7. Every day is to be for the glory of God not just one. Heb 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Is not specific as to what day to gather on or even if it was less than weekly but it is best we gather which could be even more than once a week.
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Lancer
Guest
I assume that you know/mean that as Christians we are talking about The Lord’s Day – Sunday…not the Sabbath – Saturday. Also, the context of Romans 14:5 is fasting and acceptance of others decisions on personal devotions…not keeping the Ten Commandments…
The Ten Commandments are not optional choices/decisions for each man…even Christians of the New Testament:
**CCC
**The day of the Resurrection: the new creation
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.1061St. Justin, I Apol. 67G 6,429 and 432.
(NOTE: see CCC paras 2175-2188)
For me…these following three quotes: two from Our Lord Jesus and one from Saint Paul…are the “case closed…periods”…on the Sunday worship question:
and
and from Saint Paul:
Peter has spoken…case closed!
Pax Christi
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juliamajor
Guest
Thank you.I was beginning to think every Christian on the site were Sabbath keepers and SDA! Oh a voice of sanity!
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patricius79
Guest
Thanks everyone. That helps. For some reason I had been using the term “Sunday Sabbath” when I meant only tha the third commandment is still obligatory. peace, pat
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christian_777
Guest
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus Himself made it clear that the law should not be changed. That he will never change it. Are we not defying Christ when we decide that we can change from Sabbath to sunday and think it does not matter. Are we not in opposition to God.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Jesus Himself made it clear that the law should not be changed. That he will never change it. Are we not defying Christ when we decide that we can change from Sabbath to sunday and think it does not matter. Are we not in opposition to God.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
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juliamajor
Guest
Even Historical proofs are not enough to stop the blather.
Keep quoting ,it proves nothing but that you can remember real good.You misrepresent scipture, you misconstrue scripture , you twist and torture scripture and history to suit your agenda. Sorry but you don’t have anyone here buying the shoddy goods you peddle.
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christian_777
Guest
How can such a statement be misrepresented? It is clear and absolute, and it is Jesus that is speaking.Even Historical proofs are not enough to stop the blather.
Keep quoting ,it proves nothing but that you can remember real good.You misrepresent scipture, you misconstrue scripture , you twist and torture scripture and history to suit your agenda. Sorry but you don’t have anyone here buying the shoddy goods you peddle.
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Brian_Culliton
Guest
When did the Sabbath change take place?
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NHInsider
Guest
The coming-together for the Eucharistic celebration has been on the first day from the very beginning (because it was the Day of the Resurrection-see Acts 20:7, among other references).
The abandonment of the 7th day Sabbath observance was a gradual process, as the exclusion of Christians from the synagogues took place at different times in different cities. When they were excluded from the synagogue, the Christians began to append the synagogue service of Scripture readings and teaching to the Eucharistic celebration.
This is why to this day we have a two-part liturgy, first the liturgy of the Word, then the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Also why there are duplicates of things like the greeting. . . .
By the time of Justin Martyr (second century) the practice of Christian worship being on Sunday was universal and established.
The establishment of Sunday as an official day of rest had to wait for the day when Christianity became a legally-recognized religion (Constantine).
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Jermosh
Guest
Its more of a discipline thing, meaning we are asked to make every effort to make is to Mass. But a priest can easily give disposition for just cause.
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Cristian_B
Guest
This is a little story:
There was once a man who broke the law. He was thrown in jail. He received his proper punishment. While he was receiving his punishment, this man claims that he can change the law. Is that fair? Isn’t the judge or governor the only one that can judge or change the law?
The Judge declared His law holy, just and perfect. It was the Judge’s [God’s] verdict about the Law. Nothing is wrong with it. But now a sinner claims that he can change the law he is under. Can a man behind bars judge the law, or isn’t that the judge’s responsibility?
Let us look at it from another perspective. I will quote two passages from Scriptures:
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. Galatians 3:15
In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. Hebrews 9:16-17
Now, a Testament can only be changed as long as the person lives. And once the person dies, the Testament cannot be changed, even if the person resurrects. Now that Jesus died, the Covenant cannot be changed. And Jesus did not change the Sabbath day, it changed after the Testament has been established. Since it has been established, it cannot be changed. Therefore, since the change of the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday is after the Testament has been established, it is invalid.
This is from a point of view in which the Ten Commandments are part of the Covenant, but I do not believe they are. The Ten Commandments are the Law, not the covenant. And only a judge can judge the Law, and not a prisoner. So if the Judge declared the law holy, just and perfect, my question is: why has it been changed?
There was once a man who broke the law. He was thrown in jail. He received his proper punishment. While he was receiving his punishment, this man claims that he can change the law. Is that fair? Isn’t the judge or governor the only one that can judge or change the law?
The Judge declared His law holy, just and perfect. It was the Judge’s [God’s] verdict about the Law. Nothing is wrong with it. But now a sinner claims that he can change the law he is under. Can a man behind bars judge the law, or isn’t that the judge’s responsibility?
Let us look at it from another perspective. I will quote two passages from Scriptures:
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. Galatians 3:15
In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. Hebrews 9:16-17
Now, a Testament can only be changed as long as the person lives. And once the person dies, the Testament cannot be changed, even if the person resurrects. Now that Jesus died, the Covenant cannot be changed. And Jesus did not change the Sabbath day, it changed after the Testament has been established. Since it has been established, it cannot be changed. Therefore, since the change of the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday is after the Testament has been established, it is invalid.
This is from a point of view in which the Ten Commandments are part of the Covenant, but I do not believe they are. The Ten Commandments are the Law, not the covenant. And only a judge can judge the Law, and not a prisoner. So if the Judge declared the law holy, just and perfect, my question is: why has it been changed?
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juliamajor
Guest
Better talk to Jesus and His boys. Jesus is Lord of the sabbath and since the Apostles are His ambassadors you better consult them and ask them since they were the ones that changed it.The SDA propaganda story holds no historical water ,and is fraudulently portrayed by the SDA and other so-called Sabbath Keepers. They cannot relent on this historical(not theological)point.If they acknowledged historical facts instead of fantasy their whole fabric of their beliefs would be shredded, and the emperor would be sans clothes. This would happen if they would acknowledge this one historical fact.
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Ralph4454
Guest
Do Protestants not go to “service” on sunday?
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juliamajor
Guest
Don’t these folks confuse you. The vast, vast majority of protestants are Sunday service people.Their are a minority of people who called themselves “sabbath Keepers” primarily SDA(seventh day adventists) .At CAF we,for some reason, have been infested by a horde of SDA’s who seem to think they are the only real christians and true Protestants.Much to the chargrin of th majority of Protestants. They have much more in common with the Judaizers of Paul then with anyone else.The are rabidly anti-catholic, and have been taught to be so by their “prophet” Ellen Gould White and spread the most bizarre and weird “history” via another bigot called Alexander Hislop- and believe me -it is real “slop”.Do Protestants not go to “service” on sunday?
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Brian_Culliton
Guest
In my opinion, NHInsider gave a very good response to the Sabbath change question. There can be no doubt that Sunday has been the day of Christian gathering and worship since the time of the apostles – unless one wants to defy history.
The churches in the region of Asia Minor distinguished quite clearly between the seventh day Sabbath and Sunday worship. Keeping the seventh day Sabbath was encouraged in the Syrian churches, but was clearly inferior to Sunday worship as illustrated in the third century compilation of Christian instruction called, The Constitutions of the Holy Apostles. In this work we find the following instruction:
“Assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord’s house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food?” (2:59)
This is not only sufficient to show proof of Christian Sunday worship in the third century, but it also offers insight to how Sunday became something much more than a day of Christian worship and assembly; it eventually became an obligatory requirement from which a type of Christian Sabbath immerged later (officially) in the fourth century (Council of Laodicea, 364).
God’s Sabbath never changed; it was fulfilled in Christ in whom we rest.
The churches in the region of Asia Minor distinguished quite clearly between the seventh day Sabbath and Sunday worship. Keeping the seventh day Sabbath was encouraged in the Syrian churches, but was clearly inferior to Sunday worship as illustrated in the third century compilation of Christian instruction called, The Constitutions of the Holy Apostles. In this work we find the following instruction:
“Assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord’s house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food?” (2:59)
This is not only sufficient to show proof of Christian Sunday worship in the third century, but it also offers insight to how Sunday became something much more than a day of Christian worship and assembly; it eventually became an obligatory requirement from which a type of Christian Sabbath immerged later (officially) in the fourth century (Council of Laodicea, 364).
God’s Sabbath never changed; it was fulfilled in Christ in whom we rest.
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