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puzzleannie
Guest
you got him to do his own washing and packing? way to go, mom
the Church nowhere teaches it is a sin to work on Sunday, the Lord’s Day. Please give me the citation if I am wrong.
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the Church nowhere teaches it is a sin to work on Sunday, the Lord’s Day. Please give me the citation if I am wrong.
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exnihilo
Guest
This is a most appropriate topic for me since my wife and I are trying to curtail our Sunday activity. To answer the original question since this is a moral issue intention is what matters. Jesus said the Sabbath was created for man. This means that it is a gift and we should make proper use of it with a spirit of gratitude. I think we can do anything truly necessary on Sunday and it is not sinful. But what is truly necessary?
We tend to think of most things we do as being necessary. Or maybe the better way to describe it is we tend not to think and assume what we do is necessary. Man has very few true needs. He really only needs food, water, air, and depending on the climate or time of year shelter. And none of these must be fancy or elaborate. No one needs soda or cake for instance. Much of what we say we need are wants.
If we are a crafty person who realizes that much of what we think we need are really wants we’ll fall back to the argument that society makes what we want a need. And this will be true. Society may make it such that you need to do something in order to comply with its rules. But back behind that is your want to conform to society. When we say this is how the modern world is what we really mean is the modern world is so organized and I want to be successful according to the modern world. This is no need but a want.
I would humbly say the answer becomes clearer to a person who truly wants to use the gift he has been given and is thankful for that gift. I’d also say I’m not entirely sure yet as I am not sufficiently thankful. The only thing I am sure of is that most American Christians are way off track in how they treat the Sabbath. If actual Church going folks, not just proclaimed Christians, treated the Sabbath with half the reverence it demands Sundays would be dramatically different. Simple planning and prioritizing will allow us great freedom on Sundays. If we are so busy we can only do certain things on Sunday then we are too busy and should cut out something from the other six days rather than take from our Sabbath gift.
We tend to think of most things we do as being necessary. Or maybe the better way to describe it is we tend not to think and assume what we do is necessary. Man has very few true needs. He really only needs food, water, air, and depending on the climate or time of year shelter. And none of these must be fancy or elaborate. No one needs soda or cake for instance. Much of what we say we need are wants.
If we are a crafty person who realizes that much of what we think we need are really wants we’ll fall back to the argument that society makes what we want a need. And this will be true. Society may make it such that you need to do something in order to comply with its rules. But back behind that is your want to conform to society. When we say this is how the modern world is what we really mean is the modern world is so organized and I want to be successful according to the modern world. This is no need but a want.
I would humbly say the answer becomes clearer to a person who truly wants to use the gift he has been given and is thankful for that gift. I’d also say I’m not entirely sure yet as I am not sufficiently thankful. The only thing I am sure of is that most American Christians are way off track in how they treat the Sabbath. If actual Church going folks, not just proclaimed Christians, treated the Sabbath with half the reverence it demands Sundays would be dramatically different. Simple planning and prioritizing will allow us great freedom on Sundays. If we are so busy we can only do certain things on Sunday then we are too busy and should cut out something from the other six days rather than take from our Sabbath gift.
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fred_conty
Guest
I can only say “amen” to that.
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fred_conty
Guest
Twinc this is what you said above:
Originally Posted by twinc
seriously though Jesus and the Apostles and early Christians worked and shopped on Sunday - the weekend off for a true Christian should be only saturday and back at work on sunday - twinc
have an issue with Sunday as the day Christians keep holy.
There is another faith tradition that keeps Saturday holy and not Sunday. This would fit
you. But not catholic definitely. And if you say you are, then you need to seek instruction.
Originally Posted by twinc
seriously though Jesus and the Apostles and early Christians worked and shopped on Sunday - the weekend off for a true Christian should be only saturday and back at work on sunday - twinc
since the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath,then the criterion or yard stick must be what reason or necessity dictates - btw on a secular calendar the week starts on a Monday and ends on a Sunday,whilst on a Christian calendar it starts on a Sunday and ends on a Saturday - go take a good look for the first time - the joke is it no good trying to reason with a Christian who doesn’t even know what day it is - twinc
Twinc you claim to be Catholic. I don’t believe that. Every Catholic I’ve ever known did nothave an issue with Sunday as the day Christians keep holy.
There is another faith tradition that keeps Saturday holy and not Sunday. This would fit
you. But not catholic definitely. And if you say you are, then you need to seek instruction.
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maryjk
Guest
Long ago you were taught what was a mortal vs. venial. NOW, we know that 3 conditions must be present for a sin to be mortal. There is nothing in the CCC that says a sin is mortal if the “sin” persists for a set amount of time.
To say nothing of the fact that shopping on Sunday is not a mortal sin.
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Catholic90
Guest
Yes, he did! He has been doing his own laundry ever since he was in senior high. He was one of the few boys at college who actually knew what he was doing when it came to laundry! He can cook too, and as a matter of fact, he was my chief cook at home all summer. I will really miss him!
As for the packing, he knew what he wanted to take, how he wanted it organized, etc., so I bought him a few big bins, and he did the rest. He texted me last night, only forgetting one Internet cord, so I will mail a care package tomorrow (and maybe a few treats!).
He had the Internet cord last year, but never needed it, due to a wireless connection, and left it at home, but his new dorm does not have wireless, so he needs a cord.
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fred_conty
Guest
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what I said and didn’t say.
So I will try to help clearify what I said.
I said
And I said, “Manual work, if is not necessary, would be a sin.” It is going against the Preecept of the Church and therefore a sin. Notice it diid not say all work but “unnecessary work” which is exactly what the precept said. Those that are required to work by their employer are working from necessity to keep their jobs. So they would be exempt from this because it does not fall under “unnecessary work”. Farmers who need to tend to their live stock, etc., are exempt because they this is necessary work. Nurses, doctors, and other people in public service need to work for the public good and they would be exampt. Large families who do not have the time to take care of all the needs of the family in 6 days of the week, would fall under “necessary work” and they would be exempt. The key words are “unnecessary work” makes work wrong.
U. S. Catholic Catechism For Adults p.334
“Exceptions are made for those who must work for the public good, but this is not the problem. Too many people are just as busy and exhausted on Sundays as they are on weekdays. For many, Sunday is neither a day of rest nor a time for worship.”
(CCC 2195)
From the above, it is wrong to support shops and other services which are not necessary to be open on Sunday.
This is giving approval, support and encouragement to something that is wrong.
Sports activities and recreational activities are not included because this is not considered work.
So I will try to help clearify what I said.
I said
- "Manual work, if it is not necessary, would be a sin.
- The amount of time will determine whether it is a venial or mortal sin.
Long ago we were taught if it is two and a half hours, then mortal. - And also shopping on Sunday was also wrong unless necessary.
- The difficulty of answering honestly what is necessary depends on quality of the christian."
- U. S. Catholic Catechism For Adults p.334 Under Precepts of the Church.
"You shall attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. Sunday, the day of Resurrection, should be treated
And I said, “Manual work, if is not necessary, would be a sin.” It is going against the Preecept of the Church and therefore a sin. Notice it diid not say all work but “unnecessary work” which is exactly what the precept said. Those that are required to work by their employer are working from necessity to keep their jobs. So they would be exempt from this because it does not fall under “unnecessary work”. Farmers who need to tend to their live stock, etc., are exempt because they this is necessary work. Nurses, doctors, and other people in public service need to work for the public good and they would be exampt. Large families who do not have the time to take care of all the needs of the family in 6 days of the week, would fall under “necessary work” and they would be exempt. The key words are “unnecessary work” makes work wrong.
U. S. Catholic Catechism For Adults p.334
“Exceptions are made for those who must work for the public good, but this is not the problem. Too many people are just as busy and exhausted on Sundays as they are on weekdays. For many, Sunday is neither a day of rest nor a time for worship.”
- I did say “long ago” not today. This is what we were taught. There has to be some criteria between venial and
- I said “shopping was wrong, unless necessary”.
Catechism of the Catholic Church p. 529
“On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound…to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord’s Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body” (CIC,can. 1247). (CCC 2193)
(CCC 2195)
From the above, it is wrong to support shops and other services which are not necessary to be open on Sunday.
This is giving approval, support and encouragement to something that is wrong.
Sports activities and recreational activities are not included because this is not considered work.
- I said, “The difficulty of answering honestly what is necessary depends on quality of the christian.”
Because everyone has their own level of goodness in their heart and mind. There are the devout and there are others of various degrees of devout. So each is going to see things in their own way. And some will say unfortunately “noone is going to tell me that.” Well then, that is the end of that story and to authority as well.
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twinc
Guest
it is as I have said,unless of course you have a calendar different to the rest of us - if I am right it matters not what other Catholics accept - the proof of the pudding is in the eating so the next time you are off for the week-end make sure it is only Saturday you have off - twinc
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mirandajb
Guest
This ‘ancient’ belief still holds good in God’s mind and the more you read the Bible (with the Holy Spirit’s help), you will realise the significance. In the Old Testament, even planting of crops, after 6 years, the land must rest for one year. Slaves are set free in the year of jubilee…(7 x 7 =49) in the 50th year, Lv 25:54 Even if he is not redeemed in any of these ways, he and his children are to be released in the Year of Jubilee. The 7th day rest is very important in God’s eyes.
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fred_conty
Guest
Why we keep Sunday holy which the early church kept and early fathers of the church taught, some of them becoming martyrs for truth they were teaching. One such truth is
that Sunday is the Lord’s day and not Saturday. It makes absolutely no sense to keep
Saturday holy when from earliest times Sunday was kept holy. And I’m sure God will not
hold it against some on this forum who pretend to be catholic to take Sunday as their
holy day as well.
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9109prot.asp
Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110) wrote, “Those who walk in the ancient practices attain to newness of hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but fashioning their lives after the Lord’s Day on which our life also arose through him, that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher” (Letter to the Magnesians).
In the middle of the second century Justin Martyr explained why Sunday is the day Christians observe: “Sunday is the day on which we all gather in a common assembly, because it is the first day, the day on which God, changing darkness and matter, created the world, and it is the day on which Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead” (First Apology).
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twinc
Guest
so who is contesting or arguing this - this is well known and accepted by Christians but not Muslims or Jews etc - twinc
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Bookcat
Guest
See Catechism: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a3.htm
Also read from Pope Benedict XVI:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html#The_eucharistic_form_of_the_christian_life
Also read from Pope Benedict XVI:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html#The_eucharistic_form_of_the_christian_life
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RedDuke50
Guest
Thank you for the replies, everyone.
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