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Kithrus
Guest
What scenes?
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Of course not. It’s highly unlikely the Catholic Church has made any pronouncements regarding aliens from another planet.Why? Is that a rule?
But really, think about it. If Superman is not a human being (established in The Man of Steel #5, I believe), then he is not a descendant of Adam and does not share our nature (and Adam’s Original Sin). Since Christ came became truly man, that is, took upon himself our nature for the redemption of the human race. Superman, or any other non-human alien would not be part of this redemption since Christ did not assume his nature. If Superman’s race had its own “original sin”, then God would probably have, if he so willed it, devised a particular plan of salvation for his world and race, perhaps in a manner drastically different from our own salvation history.
So unfortunately, I think that upbringing and personal beliefs notwhithstanding, Clark Kent cannot be validly baptized and can never be ontologically a Christian.
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Kamaduck
Guest
First reaction: I suppose that makes sense, but there’s really no need to think that hard about it.
Second reaction: Wait a minute… This means that fallen aliens can be saved through means slightly different than humans! I could write some pretty awesome science fiction by using that idea…
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JustaServant
Guest
Superman is Pentecostal.
Think about it.
He always has his hands in the air and he levitates.
Think about it.
He always has his hands in the air and he levitates.
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Kamaduck
Guest
Time for me to read more stuff.
It’s a rather large idea if you ask me. Must have plenty of life still in it.
I’d probably just include it as a background idea anyway, though.
It’s a rather large idea if you ask me. Must have plenty of life still in it.
I’d probably just include it as a background idea anyway, though.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
Superman is Pentecostal.
Think about it.
He always has his hands in the air and he levitates.
:clapping::yup:
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JamesCaruso
Guest
You may have made an argument for there not being any other race equivalent to human, that is, with a body and soul possessing free will. Why would God seek to have two or more races of “free will beings” with bodies thus necessitating additional deaths on crosses. It doesn’t make sense to me. But of course one can speculate either side.
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Kithrus
Guest
I think your looking at it way to hard.
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Kamaduck
Guest
By earth’s standards, Superman is Christian if he identifies as Christian. He was probably baptized, too, although we can’t know whether it was neccessary (or if it was the proper thing to do for an alien).
Superman would doubtless tell us that he is a Christian, and I don’t think it would be our place to question that based on his origin story.
As for whether God made any other sentient races in real life… We don’t know. But I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility, and it sure is an interesting idea to think about.
Superman would doubtless tell us that he is a Christian, and I don’t think it would be our place to question that based on his origin story.
As for whether God made any other sentient races in real life… We don’t know. But I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility, and it sure is an interesting idea to think about.
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Nom_the_Wise
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Nom_the_Wise
Guest
I was thinking of Perelandra as I read the last few posts, like when JamesCaruso said "Why would God seek to have two or more races of “free will beings” with bodies thus necessitating additional deaths on crosses. It doesn’t make sense to me. But of course one can speculate either side." Of course in the Narnia Chronicles, CS Lewis took on the idea of if God created other worlds that Christ (or the second person in the Trinity) would go there as a redeemer if necessary. BUT in Perelandra, the whole story is about Ransom actively attempting to stop original sin before it even happened, which was pretty astounding and “frightening.”
I haven’t seen Man of Steel, but even back in the 80s when Marlon Brando played Jor-El his language was explicitly Biblical, with Jor-El saying “Live as one of them, Kal-El, to discover where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you… my only son.” So yes, even if not explicitly “Catholic” Superman has always been a literary “Christ.”
Recent generations of folks probably have not heard of the musical *Godspell *from the 70’s, where the character playing the part of Jesus has always worn a Superman shirt. That was a purposeful decision.
I haven’t seen Man of Steel, but even back in the 80s when Marlon Brando played Jor-El his language was explicitly Biblical, with Jor-El saying “Live as one of them, Kal-El, to discover where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you… my only son.” So yes, even if not explicitly “Catholic” Superman has always been a literary “Christ.”
Recent generations of folks probably have not heard of the musical *Godspell *from the 70’s, where the character playing the part of Jesus has always worn a Superman shirt. That was a purposeful decision.
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JamesCaruso
Guest
Who knows, maybe somehow Superman is a descendant of Adam. How he got to Krypton, I don’t know. Maybe alien abduction?By earth’s standards, Superman is Christian if he identifies as Christian. He was probably baptized, too, although we can’t know whether it was neccessary (or if it was the proper thing to do for an alien).
Superman would doubtless tell us that he is a Christian, and I don’t think it would be our place to question that based on his origin story.
As for whether God made any other sentient races in real life… We don’t know. But I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility, and it sure is an interesting idea to think about.
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JamesCaruso
Guest
In a future episode I can see it now. Superman visits the Vatican where he is given the task of poring through all available ancient manuscripts, then producing the best ever translation of the Holy Bible. And while he’s at it, he can translate the EF into the vernacular for every country in the world. I’ve always wanted to see what that would be like. I wonder… if Superman can prove his human lineage, he might even give up his life of fighting crime to become a Catholic Priest. I wonder which he would choose, religious order or secular? Or, come to think of it, he could live a double life, with Clark Kent joining the seminary and Superman continuing to patrol the streets of Metropolis.
Truly, I LOLd.
Now I am getting depressed. Superman has been running around fighting archenemies and keeping America safe from crime, but why hasn’t he paid any attention to world poverty and disease? Could it be that this super hero has no heart for the poor and disadvantaged? I mean, why isn’t he taking out every bad dictator around the world, making sure that needed food and medical supplies reach the people in third world countries, stopping wars wherever they break out, finding cures for every disease, …I mean… here’s a man who can fly around the world so fast he can go back in time!
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Kamaduck
Guest
Now THAT would be an interesting twist.Who knows, maybe somehow Superman is a descendant of Adam. How he got to Krypton, I don’t know. Maybe alien abduction?
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Kamaduck
Guest
It would be both insensitive and dreadfully dull for Superman to create a world without disease or poverty. While I think those would be very good goals in real life, they don’t work for Superman in a fictional setting. I think some versions of the Justice League have been involved in world events to a large extent, but the only way to balance that is to make many of the dictators super villains. In the end, they never seem to gain that much ground. Now, in the days of World War II, Superman did go to war. The results were kind of corny, as you can imagine- it’s insensitive to write a story in which heroes save humans from themselves by waving a magic wand. That’s not how life works.In a future episode I can see it now. Superman visits the Vatican where he is given the task of poring through all available ancient manuscripts, then producing the best ever translation of the Holy Bible. And while he’s at it, he can translate the EF into the vernacular for every country in the world. I’ve always wanted to see what that would be like. I wonder… if Superman can prove his human lineage, he might even give up his life of fighting crime to become a Catholic Priest. I wonder which he would choose, religious order or secular? Or, come to think of it, he could live a double life, with Clark Kent joining the seminary and Superman continuing to patrol the streets of Metropolis.
Now I am getting depressed. Superman has been running around fighting archenemies and keeping America safe from crime, but why hasn’t he paid any attention to world poverty and disease? Could it be that this super hero has no heart for the poor and disadvantaged? I mean, why isn’t he taking out every bad dictator around the world, making sure that needed food and medical supplies reach the people in third world countries, stopping wars wherever they break out, finding cures for every disease, …I mean… here’s a man who can fly around the world so fast he can go back in time!
Besides, I doubt that even Superman could solve all the social ills of our world if he were real. I’m sure he could make a dent, but I doubt he understands all of politics and economics (among other things), so who’s to say he wouldn’t make some situations even worse?
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JamesCaruso
Guest
Super-pooper!It would be both insensitive and dreadfully dull for Superman to create a world without disease or poverty. While I think those would be very good goals in real life, they don’t work for Superman in a fictional setting. I think some versions of the Justice League have been involved in world events to a large extent, but the only way to balance that is to make many of the dictators super villains. In the end, they never seem to gain that much ground. Now, in the days of World War II, Superman did go to war. The results were kind of corny, as you can imagine- it’s insensitive to write a story in which heroes save humans from themselves by waving a magic wand. That’s not how life works.
Besides, I doubt that even Superman could solve all the social ills of our world if he were real. I’m sure he could make a dent, but I doubt he understands all of politics and economics (among other things), so who’s to say he wouldn’t make some situations even worse?
First, Superman would go a meeting of all the heads of missionary orders. Upon hearing what they have to say he would ask them how he could help them and perhaps make a few super proposals. Far be it from Superman to work independently of the Catholic Church. I can see Superman patrolling the skies of third world countries and finding where emergency needs exist, then with super speed rushing medical or food aid to the needy person or persons. He would be like Catholic Relief’s super weapon against world poverty and disease.
I would like to change his routine a little bit, though. Instead of the traditional phone booth, which are all but nonexistent now anyway, Superman would drop to his knees, saying a heartfelt prayer to Our Lady requesting her intervention (because even Superman needs heaven’s help), then, “Up, up, and away!” serving God in ways that only Superman can.
Now all we need is Clark Kent answering a delayed vocation and entering a monastery. He would make a good Capuchin monk, which would provide perfect cover for his extra-curricular activities. Part of the story line might be Superman’s rush to get back to answer the bell calling his fellow monks to prayer. Of course, there will be one monk who suspects something is up with this new member of the order, but he can’t quite put his finger on it. Lois Lane, of course, will enter the Poor Clares, or other order shortly after Clark leaves for the monastery.
Crank up the presses!
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chosen_people
Guest
Okay. So it was just a matter of time before “replacement theology” came to the figure of Superman.
You are quite right about the creators of Superman being Jewish (as are the creators of most of the major comic book heroes such as Batman, Spider man and the Fantastic Four (to name just a few).
The name EL is Hebrew for God. The story of being sent to earth to be rescued is indeed analogous to the story of Moses. There this “stranger in a strange land” (the American Jewish immigrant experience) hides in what to the two Jewish urbanites who created him is the ultimate antithesis to his identity - a rural agricultural WASP family. However Superman doesn’t re- emerge as a policeman or fireman or ambulance driver (Gentile workplaces for Jews at the time- which would however . have been more conducive to the storyline) but as a bespectacled nebish name Clark Kent who works as a newspaper reporter (a perfectly acceptable profession allowing for any Jewish mother to declare that her son makes his living as a writer). “Torah, Service to God and Kindness” are re transformed to “Truth,Justice and the American way” (in line with Jewish American patriotism of the time fueled by Roosevelt and the rise of Hitler - and yes Captain America was also created by a Jew).
Many books have been written on the subject :
amazon.com/Superman-Is-Jewish-Superheroes-Jewish-American/dp/1416595309
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JamesCaruso
Guest
And doesn’t that tie in with the Jewish concept of the Messiah as a “super-man”, not the uber-man of Nietzsche and Hitler, which almost brought the Jewish people to extinction, but the super-man of truth, justice and freedom who will liberate the Jewish people, and by extension, all mankind. Quite the opposite of the Christian Messiah, who however, will one day return in power and might. I’m not asking for your agreement on that last part, respecting your difference of opinion.
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Kamaduck
Guest
I don’t know, man. I think I prefer it when Superman isn’t religiously affiliated to a large degree. He’s one of the few heroes of today that is a real hero and not some degree of anti-hero. I want everyone to have access to that image, not chase people away from what he stands for.Super-pooper!
First, Superman would go a meeting of all the heads of missionary orders. Upon hearing what they have to say he would ask them how he could help them and perhaps make a few super proposals. Far be it from Superman to work independently of the Catholic Church. I can see Superman patrolling the skies of third world countries and finding where emergency needs exist, then with super speed rushing medical or food aid to the needy person or persons. He would be like Catholic Relief’s super weapon against world poverty and disease.
I would like to change his routine a little bit, though. Instead of the traditional phone booth, which are all but nonexistent now anyway, Superman would drop to his knees, saying a heartfelt prayer to Our Lady requesting her intervention (because even Superman needs heaven’s help), then, “Up, up, and away!” serving God in ways that only Superman can.
Now all we need is Clark Kent answering a delayed vocation and entering a monastery. He would make a good Capuchin monk, which would provide perfect cover for his extra-curricular activities. Part of the story line might be Superman’s rush to get back to answer the bell calling his fellow monks to prayer. Of course, there will be one monk who suspects something is up with this new member of the order, but he can’t quite put his finger on it. Lois Lane, of course, will enter the Poor Clares, or other order shortly after Clark leaves for the monastery.
Crank up the presses!
Now, if the character were to finally go into the public domain, I’d be fine with a Catholic version of Superman, one among many Superman adaptations.
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JamesCaruso
Guest
One of the reasons, I believe, that Superman is so attractive, is that in our fantasies we would pick anyone but Jesus Christ to be our hero. We are like the apostles who were expecting Jesus to become a great worldly king, freeing the people from the Romans and leading Israel to greatness. When it turned out that he was going to let himself be killed, it blew their minds. Our worldly side would rather he rise from the cross in a great sign of power, his wounds healing instantly like you see in sci-fi flicks, and zap his torturers and tormentors with rays from his fingertips. But, alas, he’s only the Son of God, only the sole person to ever raise himself up from the dead, the only person who can do everything that Superman can do, only more things than Superman can do and better, yet choosing wisely not to do it, but allowing us to do whatever is needed in his place. I don’t mean this as a put down, please don’t take it that way. We are all guilty of thinking there are better ways to deal with crime and immorality than the way Jesus outlined for us, but his way must be the best way-- I can’t think of any reason why a Superman approach would be better. I wonder if it is destructive to our sense of God and gratitude to Him to fantasize about super heroes, neglecting to realize that Jesus is the greatest super hero of all, and not just in our fantasies. I didn’t explain myself all that well, but I hope you get the idea. There is no superhero as great as Jesus Christ, yet our fallen nature craves a secular version that rules by brute force, something Our Lord and Savior would never do in his first coming, Stick around, though, I hear he’s coming back.I don’t know, man. I think I prefer it when Superman isn’t religiously affiliated to a large degree. He’s one of the few heroes of today that is a real hero and not some degree of anti-hero. I want everyone to have access to that image, not chase people away from what he stands for.
Now, if the character were to finally go into the public domain, I’d be fine with a Catholic version of Superman, one among many Superman adaptations.
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