Supporting Large Families

[mom24boys]

My responsibility is to help where I can.

Just so you know, I was addressing a specific comment, not picking on you! The reason I said that small NFP families are in the minority is because, statistically, most couples are not practicing NFP. Chances are that when you see a small family, it is not a small NFP family! Not that it doesn’t happen.

 

[Rico_S]

Am I to understand that your position is that if a couple is struggling financially or otherwise with a larger family, they should just abstain?

I think it is irresponsible for a couple to continue to have children when they will be unable to support them without outside financial assistance. So if a Catholic couple faithful to church teachings finds themsleves in this situation, then the answer is yes…they should abstain or practice NFP to avoid. I can’t imagine anyone finding this stance unreasonable.

That the responsibility lies with them alone, not with the Church who declares the teaching?

While the church does encourage large families through its teachings, I don’t think the church encourages couples who cannot support more children to go ahead and have more. So again, yes, imo, the responsibility does lie with them and them alone.

What about unforseen circumstances?

That is a completely different ballgame. The church should help large families who are in need of help, like they should with small families, singles, senior citizens, etc when they need help.

 

[mom24boys]

I think it is irresponsible for a couple to continue to have children when they will be unable to support them without outside financial assistance. So if a Catholic couple faithful to church teachings finds themsleves in this situation, then the answer is yes…they should abstain or practice NFP to avoid. I can’t imagine anyone finding this stance unreasonable.

I find this stance unreasonable. NFP IS NOT a guarantee of preventing more children. You practice it specifically with the mindset that God may send you more children. NFP is not Catholic birth control. Yes, many (even most) people can use NFP successfully, but some can’t. So your answer in that situation is complete abstinence?

And actually, I think that most families can get financial assistance through a variety of mean if they need it. That is probably the easiest kind of assistance to find if you need it. Nobody has to go hungry in this country. The kind of support that I see lacking is the practical kind, like helping with babysitting, housework, meal preparation, etc. during times of need.

The other thing that bothers me about your position is that I wonder what your critera for “can’t afford more children” is?

 

[mom24boys]

While the church does encourage large families through its teachings, I don’t think the church encourages couples who cannot support more children to go ahead and have more. So again, yes, imo, the responsibility does lie with them and them alone.

Hmmmm. This statement bothers me too. You really think those who have more children than they “can afford” should be punished by going it alone without support from the Church? If the Church really believes that you should be able to afford more children before you have them, then they need to start allowing ABC, particularly in third world countries. Or perhaps the Church should start mandating abstinent marriages if the country you are born in to is below a certain financial standard.

What I’d like to get back to, is… how can we support large families? Do you have any suggestions, Rico S, or should they just go it alone?

 

[gardenswithkids]

One thing that some Catholics could do to support large familes–that wouldn’t cost anything–is give parents of large families basic courtesy. The words of my mother come to mind, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”

 

[Rico_S]

I find this stance unreasonable. NFP IS NOT a guarantee of preventing more children. You practice it specifically with the mindset that God may send you more children. NFP is not Catholic birth control. Yes, many (even most) people can use NFP successfully, but some can’t. So your answer in that situation is complete abstinence?

Without going into what I think are your misunderstandings of the use of NFP, yes, the answer is abstinence–if one desires to faithfully follow church teachings.

Let me ask you a question. Is it ok for you to expect me to pay for you to have more children? Is that reasonable?

And actually, I think that most families can get financial assistance through a variety of mean if they need it. That is probably the easiest kind of assistance to find if you need it. Nobody has to go hungry in this country

IMO, it seems self evident that those who rely on the generosity of other’s for the basics of life (food shelter clothing) would be irresponsible to continue to have more children. Just because the money is easy to get in our society does not mean that is not wrong to have more children while relying on that money.

The kind of support that I see lacking is the practical kind, like helping with babysitting, housework, meal preparation, etc. during times of need.

I hear you…and I don’t completely disagree.

edit to add:

This kind of support goes hand in hand with the community of parish life. Do you not feel that those in your parish can offer support in this fashion when you need it, and do you not offer it for others? I guess if you are looking for part time maids or chefs, then no…that is not a part of the parish community. But when a family is in need to a financial crisis, death, birth etc…i definitely see a support network with the parish community to assist with the things you listed (although housework probably not so much).

. You really think those who have more children than they “can afford” should be punished by going it alone without support from the Church?

No. I am not saying that the church should not help these families…they absolutely should. The Church helps everyone, especially those who have made bad choices and find themselves in trouble. However, I don’t think the church teaching condones this behavior and so is no way responsible for the resulting situation like you are implying.

 

[maryjk]

Just so you know, I was addressing a specific comment, not picking on you! The reason I said that small NFP families are in the minority is because, statistically, most couples are not practicing NFP. Chances are that when you see a small family, it is not a small NFP family! Not that it doesn’t happen.

I realize that you were not picking on me. But just like it is rude to ask large families if they know where babies come from, it is just as rude to assume small families are not practicing NFP.

Large families should also realize that small families sometimes need support. When I had surgery, it was nice that people brought meals. When my husband was out of work, it would have been nice if someone offered some help.

Having been there, I help when and where I can for ALL families, not just large families.

 

[mom24boys]

Without going into what I think are your misunderstandings of the use of NFP, yes, the answer is abstinence–if one desires to faithfully follow church teachings.

What do you believe my misunderstandings of NFP are? You didn’t answer my question about a financial litmus test for having a large family. Where do you draw the line for affordability? What about countries where poverty is the norm? Should the Church institute sexless marriage in those countries?

Let me ask you a question. Is it ok for you to expect me to pay for you to have more children? Is that reasonable?

I don’t need you to pay for me to have more children. I am not arguing for financial assistance for myself. But if some families need significant assistance, then we (the body of Christ) need to find ways to offer it. I would help anybody to the best of my ability if I found out they were in need.

This kind of support goes hand in hand with the community of parish life. Do you not feel that those in your parish can offer support in this fashion when you need it, and do you not offer it for others?

Did you bother to read my prior posts before commenting? After I had my fourth child I almost died. Our business wasn’t making any money and my husband almost had a nervous breakdown. No, my parish didn’t offer us any assistance. My parents helped us financially and my PROTESTANT friends brought meals for my family because I was bedridden.

I guess if you are looking for part time maids or chefs, then no…that is not a part of the parish community.

You are very unkind. What kind of help do you think a mother needs when she is bedridden?

 

[mom24boys]

I realize that you were not picking on me. But just like it is rude to ask large families if they know where babies come from, it is just as rude to assume small families are not practicing NFP.

Large families should also realize that small families sometimes need support. When I had surgery, it was nice that people brought meals. When my husband was out of work, it would have been nice if someone offered some help.

Having been there, I help when and where I can for ALL families, not just large families.

I do not assume that small families are not practicing NFP. I never assume anything about a particular family. It is a statistical reality though that most small families are not practicing NFP.

Of course small families need support. But in my experience, people were quicker to offer help when I had a small family. With each successive child I think people have the false assumption that you must have some special power and you don’t need any help. I do know what it is like to have a small family. Every large family was once a small family! Having a large family, in general, is more challenging (and I only have 4 going on 5… I am scared of having more). It is hard to have a large family in a society where your own friends, family and society in general think you are off your rocker.

Please be gentle with me. I am hurting and experiencing very deep doubts. I didn’t start this thread to denigrate small families. I started this thread wondering how our Church, who preaches a teaching that is very hard to live up to in this day and age, can offer practical support to large families. The needs and logistics of larger families are different.

 

[Rico_S]

mom24boys:

I am sorry about your situation and I did not read the details of your specific situation earlier in the thread. My responses here have only been directed around the general conversation about large families needing additional help from the church the church’s culpability for such situations. I am sorry that you did not get the help you needed from the church or parish community in general when your need was dire. That is awful.

I would not have chosen to disagree with your position if I thougth my disagreement would be construed as an attack on you. So I will just leave it be. My apologies if I have upset you.

–Rico

 

[maryjk]

Please be gentle with me. I am hurting and experiencing very deep doubts. I didn’t start this thread to denigrate small families. I started this thread wondering how our Church, who preaches a teaching that is very hard to live up to in this day and age, can offer practical support to large families. The needs and logistics of larger families are different.

I wish you lived in the South. Or attended our parish. We have so many large families and lots of assistance for them and everyone. I don’t know if there is financial support, but there I know that whenever a new baby arrives, the mom gets meals, babysitting and house help if needed.

I guess my problem is much like yours. It is very hard to be a small family while attending a parish with so many large families. Most assume we use contraception. It makes me a little touchy.