Supporting McDonalds sinful?

[Joe_5859]

No, it isn’t. Buying something is giving them a profit, so that they can put the money towards whatever end they wish. If that end is supporting immoral behavior, you are supporting their support of immoral behavior, which is immoral. When you’re talking about a business, and not people, buying something is the same as giving a charitable donation. Both are unacceptable, if the money is going towards something wrong.

While the two are not entirely separate, there is a distinction. A direct charitable contribution would imply formal cooperation with the evil. When you purchase a business’ product, your intent is to obtain the product, not necessarily to endorse their agenda. This would be material cooperation and not necessarily sinful (although it could be).

We are obligated not to, because by eating there we are sending the message that we agree with their agenda.

That’s a bit of an overstatement. By that logic we would have to boycott more or less everything.

I disagree. Firstly, the action (buying the food) is pretty directly related to the effect (promotion of the gay agenda). Secondly, as I have already mentioned, financially supporting them (assisting) *is, *in this case, approving. Lastly, there is no sufficient reason, as one could just as easily eat something else. (In most cases. In cases like the one kmleo mentioned, where it is the only choice for food, it is morally permissible.) In a nutshell, I do not believe the Principle of Double Effect applies here.

I respectfully disagree. In the realm of moral theology “direct cause” has a very specific meaning. And buying food from McDonald’s, is, at best, a remote cause of the promotion of the gay agenda.

Why not?

Well, for one, Planned Parenthood itself directly participates in the grave moral evil of abortion by committing the act themselves. This is not the case for most businesses. You could use the analogy for similar inherently immoral businesses (like the porn industry), but it does not correlate to most other examples.

Different rules apply for people than for businesses. It is not wrong to give charity to a Satanist, right? But it *is *wrong to give money to a business that supports and promotes Satanism.

I’d be interested to hear you articulate why different rules apply for people than for businesses (or how buying “Lord of the Rings” does not constitute the support of a business).

 

[Mattapoisett64]

No, but we shouldn’t blindly support anything just because someone hasn’t looked us in the face and told us they’re evil. We just have to be careful; if you hear something along the lines of the business supporting immoral acts, stop going.

No, it isn’t. Buying something is giving them a profit, so that they can put the money towards whatever end they wish. If that end is supporting immoral behavior, you are supporting their support of immoral behavior, which is immoral. When you’re talking about a business, and not people, buying something is the same as giving a charitable donation. Both are unacceptable, if the money is going towards something wrong.

It is indeed. But eating at McDonalds in not necessarily gluttonous.

We are obligated not to, because by eating there we are sending the message that we agree with their agenda.

I disagree. Firstly, the action (buying the food) is pretty directly related to the effect (promotion of the gay agenda). Secondly, as I have already mentioned, financially supporting them (assisting) *is, *in this case, approving. Lastly, there is no sufficient reason, as one could just as easily eat something else. (In most cases. In cases like the one kmleo mentioned, where it is the only choice for food, it is morally permissible.) In a nutshell, I do not believe the Principle of Double Effect applies here.

Why not?

Different rules apply for people than for businesses. It is not wrong to give charity to a Satanist, right? But it *is *wrong to give money to a business that supports and promotes Satanism.

Could you please clarify the following with respect to your post:

1. " . . . if you hear something along the lines of the business supporting immoral acts, stop going." Hear something? Is there not an obligation in justice to ascertain that what you may have “heard” is in fact correct? There are lots of crazy rumors and urban legends that in effect slander legitimate businesses; the “satanist” story about Proctor & Gamble is just one example. An earlier poster in this thread referenced an “official” church boycott list, but many of us seem unaware that the Church in fact maintains such a list. (On the other hand, Soylent Green IS people!)
2. Relative to the moral permissability of buying something from a “protestant store,” you said: “No, it isn’t. Buying something is giving them a profit, so that they can put the money towards whatever end they wish.” Please clarify what is, and how one identifies, a “protestant store.” As I asked in an earlier posting, is there an obligation to inquire as to the religion of the owner of every store I do business with?
3. You seem to dismiss any distinction between formal and material cooperation. To be consistent, that would imply a vetting of one’s purchases and business relationships to an absurd level. Using a Dell, Apple, or HP computer? Each of those organizations has a “gay employee” group and may contribute to such causes. (If you have a Lenovo, you’re supporting Communist slave labor.) Do you ever have a prescription filled? Do you use a pharmacy that refuses to sell condoms or fill Rx’s for BC pills? Where would you even find one? And so on. If a store ran a promotion along the lines of “With every purchase today, half of our profits goes to this year’s Gay Pride parade,” I’d completely agree with you. But the amount of corporate (as opposed to the franchise-holder’s) profits on a Big Mac has got to be .0000004% of whatever McDonald’s may contribute to questionable causes. That seems pretty remote to me.

 

[notsmart]

I buy rice in bulk from a muslim owned store. Should I stop?
They are very nice also. And I don’t think they would condone sexual immorality. They sell food. I am in no fear of buying from them because they are not Christians. They are not pretending to be christians. They are not even trying to make a show of being muslim either.
Isn’t the examination of conscience enough to get through without looking for sin around every corner?

 

[MYLORDANDMYGOD1]

Haven’t heard anything about Steak and Shake, but Arby’s is a “no no” too for having racey commercials. Two- really bad ones- have been blocked by most television stations in the US, but they are played elsewhere! REALLY bad! One has teacher doing strip-tease on desk in front of boy students! So- none of my money will be going to support that!

I need to make a correction to this post!!!

The store with the racey advertisements is HARDEES, not Ardy’s!
Thank you to the person who questioned this because when I read it again, saw my mistake! So, please,

Go have fun eating at ARDY’s!!!

 

[mdgspencer]

I wonder if anyone can supply proof that McDonald’s is supporting the gay agenda, and how they are doing it. Generally, I don’t pay much attention to accusations without evidence for it.
I use McDonald’s regularly, and if they use their profits to support gay life, I would no longer go there. I would be delighted to be able to reduce support for the gay agenda in any way that I can.

 

[notsmart]

I wonder if anyone can supply proof that McDonald’s is supporting the gay agenda, and how they are doing it. Generally, I don’t pay much attention to accusations without evidence for it.
I use McDonald’s regularly, and if they use their profits to support gay life, I would no longer go there. I would be delighted to be able to reduce support for the gay agenda in any way that I can.

The best way to reduce the gay agenda is to go to mass as often as you can.

 

[MYLORDANDMYGOD1]

I wonder if anyone can supply proof that McDonald’s is supporting the gay agenda, and how they are doing it. Generally, I don’t pay much attention to accusations without evidence for it.
I use McDonald’s regularly, and if they use their profits to support gay life, I would no longer go there. I would be delighted to be able to reduce support for the gay agenda in any way that I can.

Google American Family Association. They might have what you are looking for.

 

[MYLORDANDMYGOD1]

How “official”? Just what entity decreed the FIAT?

The American Family Association contacts business that do things that are contrary to Christian values. Many times, they do not boycott, but request people to sign petitions to voice opinions. But when McDonald’s came back and called those who don’t agree with the way they are doing things, bigots, a boycott was called. The boycott is not manditory- or dogma- but when many people boycott at the same time, it can make things happen! Sadly- in this world we are in- money talks!

BUT- I agree with the poster who said to go to Mass more! Amen to that!

To me, when McDonald’s calls me a bigot, this crosses the line! There is a movement to have it be considered a hate crime to even quote scriptures that illuminate the gay lifestyle as negative. I have a family member who is in the gay lifestyle. I do not hate these people, but to truly love someone means to tell them the truth about the lifestyle they are keeping! So, therefore, I choose to keep my dollars away from such a company! It is just as easy to go to Wendy’s or ARBY’s!

 

[Dan_Michael]

I look at purchases a bit differently then has been stated so far.
When I go to McD’s (or anywhere else), my money is going for the food purchased (directly), and to the employee’s, to the utility company, to the repair person, the multiple up-keep personnel, to the janitor, to the garbage man, to the state (taxes), to the county (property tax), to the Federal Gov as individual taxes and business taxes, and to whatever else they care to donate to (either above board ‘for recognition’, or under the table so no one is the wiser).
Remembering that these are HUMAN establishments, and Humans are a mix of good and bad (different ratio’s), and that even the money we earn is sometimes spent foolishly (by us)… can I neglect all the good that comes from my purchase for some belief that is not on their sign in neon lights? After all, perhaps the one taking my order is working their way through a Catholic College soon to be a Priest… How can one know? Look at all the good that was passed up by being so focused on one bad thing.

 

[Feste_1242]

That’s a bit of an overstatement. By that logic we would have to boycott more or less everything.

Just everything that promotes sin.

Well, for one, Planned Parenthood itself directly participates in the grave moral evil of abortion by committing the act themselves. This is not the case for most businesses. You could use the analogy for similar inherently immoral businesses (like the porn industry), but it does not correlate to most other examples.

Ok, I see your point and agree.

I’ve been having a lengthy conversation with my brother about all this, but I’m having a problem understanding a few things.

a) We are called to stop sin from occurring whenever possible. So if we know our money is going to support sin, shouldn’t we not spend the money? I see that the Principle of Double Effect would make spending the money morally neutral, but shouldn’t we still try to do something about the effect we know our action will have?

b) However, all money eventually goes everywhere. So no matter where you spend your money, at Catholic bookstore or at a nightclub, it will eventually wind up supporting sin in some way.

c) Also, doesn’t it matter in what way McDonalds is supporting the gay agenda? I mean, it’s like the Planned Parenthood example. If McDonalds is, say, directly paying for housing for gay couples to live in, it would be just like the Planned Parenthood example, and therefore wrong. Right? I’ve been thinking about this so long and hard that I’m starting to confuse myself. Tell me if I’ve got this wrong: It’s ok to give money to a business that will donate to Planned Parenthood, but it’s not ok to give money to Planned Parenthood directly.

So what are we, as Catholics, supposed to do? I really can’t find an answer to this; my brother and I keep talking ourselves in circles.

I’d be interested to hear you articulate why different rules apply for people than for businesses (or how buying “Lord of the Rings” does not constitute the support of a business).

You didn’t answer my Satanist comparison; what are you thoughts on it?

I never said that buying The Lord of The Rings doesn’t constitute the support of a business. What I meant is that it’s not the business part you were talking about, it was the actors themselves; they are the gay ones, not New Line Cinema.

I feel the difference is that by giving to a business, you are not only giving to the people in it; you are also giving to whatever they use their business for. By giving to a person, it is either charity or employment, and either way it doesn’t matter what their beliefs are.

It is not wrong to buy a movie with a gay actor in it, because you are not supporting the gay lifestyle, you are supporting the company that made the movie. Movie-watchers are, in a way, the employers of actors; we are partially responsible for their salary. It is not a sin to employ a gay person, obviously, so there’s nothing wrong with buying The Lord of The Rings. I mean, are they going to lead less sinful lifestyles if we make them less wealthy?

 

[Feste_1242]

Hear something? Is there not an obligation in justice to ascertain that what you may have “heard” is in fact correct? There are lots of crazy rumors and urban legends that in effect slander legitimate businesses; the “satanist” story about Proctor & Gamble is just one example. An earlier poster in this thread referenced an “official” church boycott list, but many of us seem unaware that the Church in fact maintains such a list. (On the other hand, Soylent Green IS people!)

You took my words too literally. I believe, of course, that one should check one’s facts. And what is Soylent Green? I’ve never heard of it.

Relative to the moral permissability of buying something from a “protestant store,” you said: “No, it isn’t. Buying something is giving them a profit, so that they can put the money towards whatever end they wish.” Please clarify what is, and how one identifies, a “protestant store.” As I asked in an earlier posting, is there an obligation to inquire as to the religion of the owner of every store I do business with?

I suppose “Protestant store” would mean a store with a Protestant agenda, one that supports/promotes Protestantism. And no, the owner’s personal beliefs should have no bearing on whether you buy there. As I’ve said, it only matters if they’re using their business to support a certain thing (such as the spreading of their religion).

Do you ever have a prescription filled? Do you use a pharmacy that refuses to sell condoms or fill Rx’s for BC pills? Where would you even find one? And so on. If a store ran a promotion along the lines of “With every purchase today, half of our profits goes to this year’s Gay Pride parade,” I’d completely agree with you.

I already addressed this:

I personally don’t get prescriptions filled; I haven’t been sick in years. We are called to not support these things as much as we can help it. So of course, if every single drug store in the world sold contraceptives, it would be morally acceptable to buy medicine at one of them, as you have no choice.

 

[rpp]

Haven’t heard anything about Steak and Shake, but Arby’s is a “no no” too for having racey commercials. Two- really bad ones- have been blocked by most television stations in the US, but they are played elsewhere! REALLY bad! One has teacher doing strip-tease on desk in front of boy students! So- none of my money will be going to support that!

That is NOT Arby’s that produced those ads, that was Carls Jr, and Hardees (Same company, different names in different regions.)

 

[rpp]

How “official”? Just what entity decreed the FIAT?

Here is the official site coordinating the boycott. It is being organized by the American Family Association.

boycottmcdonalds.com/

McDonalds does not pretend to hold itself out as anything more than a fast food place. They are not trying to peddle religion or anti religion on the side. As employers they cant discriminate for any reason. I am not looking for spiritual guidance when I go there. I am looking for a happy meal for my child once a month.
I don’t feel bad about it either.
Now, if they were offering drive up sermons, I would stop going.

Well, actually they are holding themselves out to be moral champions. They say if you are opposed to same sex marriage then you are motivated by hate.

I wonder if anyone can supply proof that McDonald’s is supporting the gay agenda, and how they are doing it. Generally, I don’t pay much attention to accusations without evidence for it.
I use McDonald’s regularly, and if they use their profits to support gay life, I would no longer go there. I would be delighted to be able to reduce support for the gay agenda in any way that I can.

They have stated in a press release that they are working to promote homosexual marriage and that anyone who disagrees with homosexual marriage is motivated by hate.

McDonld’s CEO promises to promote gay agenda.

McDonald’s states those opposed to same sex marriage motivated by hate.

McDonald’s offers training to people toi urge their company to support same-sex marriage.

These are issues of a moral nature. McDonald’s should remain silent on these. I support the boycott.

 

[royal_archer]

Here is the official site coordinating the boycott. It is being organized by the American Family Association.

boycottmcdonalds.com/

Well, actually they are holding themselves out to be moral champions. They say if you are opposed to same sex marriage then you are motivated by hate.

They have stated in a press release that they are working to promote homosexual marriage and that anyone who disagrees with homosexual marriage is motivated by hate.

McDonld’s CEO promises to promote gay agenda.

McDonald’s states those opposed to same sex marriage motivated by hate.

McDonald’s offers training to people toi urge their company to support same-sex marriage.

These are issues of a moral nature. McDonald’s should remain silent on these. I support the boycott.

Unfortunately staying quiet is viewed as opposing these groups. Look at what happened to a current presidential candidate when he did not want to create a state holiday for a religious leader who is well liked for his participation in the civil rights movement. According to some in the gay movement anyone who does not actively support them is a bigoted ----phobe.

Maybe I am stretching to give McDs the bennefit of the doubt but is this a case of them being coerced into publicly supporting a possition that as a corporation they really couldn’t care less about?

 

[Hobble]

The American Family Association contacts business that do things that are contrary to Christian values. Many times, they do not boycott, but request people to sign petitions to voice opinions. But when McDonald’s came back and called those who don’t agree with the way they are doing things, bigots, a boycott was called. The boycott is not manditory- or dogma- but when many people boycott at the same time, it can make things happen! Sadly- in this world we are in- money talks!

BUT- I agree with the poster who said to go to Mass more! Amen to that!

To me, when McDonald’s calls me a bigot, this crosses the line! There is a movement to have it be considered a hate crime to even quote scriptures that illuminate the gay lifestyle as negative. I have a family member who is in the gay lifestyle. I do not hate these people, but to truly love someone means to tell them the truth about the lifestyle they are keeping! So, therefore, I choose to keep my dollars away from such a company! It is just as easy to go to Wendy’s or ARBY’s!

Can you explain how boycotting a business that supports a lifestyle that goes against a particular group’s opinions is not an act of bigotry?

 

[notsmart]

Thanks for the info rpp…

Why suddenly have they decided to make such a move? I guess its just not sinking in to me how they benefit from such a thing.

I don’t remember that they ever made any comments on matters of controversy before.

 

[StMarina303ad]

thats my question. I heard they were supporting gay and lesbian agendas so I wasn’t sure if as Catholics we are obligated to not eat there.

I’ve also heard that McDonald’s financially supports the killing and terrorist action done by IDF against Palestinian Christians. They’ve even gone so far as to built a McDonald’s on Palestinian land which has been illegally confiscated from Palestinians and only hire Non-Palestinian Israeli citizens.

Our family stays away from McDonalds because they are clearly an Anti-Christian as an entity.

(individual workers of McDonalds probably have no idea - I know that way back in high school when I worked there for 3 years I know I had no idea).

 

[royal_archer]

Can you explain how boycotting a business that supports a lifestyle that goes against a particular group’s opinions is not an act of bigotry?

If you do not support David Duke’s lifestyle are you a biggot?

dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

Bigot - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Being anti gay is not bigotted. It is cognizant recognition that a specific act is wrong based on objective rationale. activist groups throw the word bigot around because they know it will get an emotional reaction from people.

 

[Hobble]

If you do not support David Duke’s lifestyle are you a biggot?

dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

Bigot a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Being anti gay is not bigotted. It is cognizant recognition that a specific act is wrong based on objective rationale. activist groups throw the word bigot around because they know it will get an emotional reaction from people.

Boycotting a business because they support a gay lifestyle, which goes against Christian morals, is bigotry.

How isn’t it?

Bigot a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

You posted the definition, so it shouldn’t be too hard to connect the dots.

In this case, Christian groups are being utterly intolerant of a gay lifestyle, to the point where they will boycott businesses because they expect them to conform to a Christian mindset.

It’s clear cut bigotry.

It seems some people have trouble relating the definition of a bigot to their own actions. But this case is truly a textbook definition.

 

[rpp]

Can you explain how boycotting a business that supports a lifestyle that goes against a particular group’s opinions is not an act of bigotry?

Can you explain how it is? I doubt it because we are talking about what people do not the people themselves.

One does not need to be religious to see the futility and destructiveness of homosexual activity; one need only be a biologist or medical professional.