Suppose Only Judas Received in the Hand

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“One can suppose that during the Last Supper Christ would have given
the bread to each apostle directly in the mouth and not only to Judas
Iscariot (see Jn 13:26–27).” Dominus Est—It Is the Lord! by Most Reverend
Athanasius Schneider

“Jesus answered, ‘It is the one to whom I hand the morsel after I have dipped it.’ So he dipped the morsel and [took it and] handed it to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot.” Jn 13:26

The Bishop is saying we can suppose that this verse indicates that Judas was the only one who received the Eucharist in the hand and that all the others received on the tongue. What do you think?

God bless
 
Gorgias said:
I think that there’s something fishy going on here. I found the text of Dominus Est on line, and the name ‘Judas’ doesn’t appear in it once.
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It’s there; that’s the text I copied it from. I have the book itself - reading it in my hands and that’s what it says. Maybe look with your eyes on page 21 (have to scroll to it) - middle of the page and don’t rely on your browser search, it’s inadequate to search pdf files on this site.

I like this explanation, it makes our Mass so much more rich in tradition to suppose they all received on the tongue, a child-like approach. Seems to reinforce so much :).
 
JoeJPurnell said:
“One can suppose that during the Last Supper Christ would have given
the bread to each apostle directly in the mouth and not only to Judas
Iscariot (see Jn 13:26–27).” Dominus Est—It Is the Lord! by Most Reverend
Athanasius Schneider

“Jesus answered, ‘It is the one to whom I hand the morsel after I have dipped it.’ So he dipped the morsel and [took it and] handed it to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot.” Jn 13:26

The Bishop is saying we can suppose that this verse indicates that Judas was the only one who received the Eucharist in the hand and that all the others received on the tongue. What do you think?

God bless
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I think that the Church allows us to receive in the hand, and that’s really all that matters.
 
It is an interesting theory, if somewhat strange. Athanasius Schneider is a very great and holy bishop, so it is not an easily-dismissed statement. I was under the impression, however, that the Lord took bread, blessed it, broke it, and consecrated it as the Eucharist after Supper was over. The “morsel” and the dipping with regards to Judas were during Supper. The 4 accounts of the Last Supper are different in terms of what was done when.
Robyn_p said:
I think that the Church allows us to receive in the hand, and that’s really all that matters.
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The Church once “allowed” the monetary sale of spiritual Indulgences for the sake of renovating St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome. Surely such allowances are not always sacred.

Naturally, the sale of grace is hardly comparable to communion in the hand.
 
I don’t think there’s any reason to think that during the last supper, Jesus broke the bread, said “This is my body…” and then fed it into each man’s mouth, except for Judas.

In John’s gospel (that the bishop mentions,) Jesus hands Judas the piece of bread. In the gospel of Mark, it says: “It is one of the Twelve,” he replied, “one who dips bread into the bowl with me.”

So I can’t tell where the bishop was going with this, or what point he was trying to make. I think a stronger point to make would be that Judas received unworthily.
 
Robyn_p said:
I think that the Church allows us to receive in the hand, and that’s really all that matters.
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+1.

These arguments over liturgical minutia, which the Holy Church settled long ago, chew up time we would more profitably use to work off our Purgatory!

ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
+1.

These arguments over liturgical minutia, which the Holy Church settled long ago, chew up time we would more profitably use to work off our Purgatory!

ICXC NIKA.
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Precisely!

Roma locuta est, causa finita est!
 
A priest can always receive from his own hands. The Apostles at the last supper were priests.

-Tim-
 
Hodegetria said:
So I can’t tell where the bishop was going with this, or what point he was trying to make. I think a stronger point to make would be that Judas received unworthily.
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Precisely. And this is the point they always seem to miss. Knowing that he was going to betray Christ, he should not have received at all.
 
Actually the quotation in the OP infers that “not only” Judas had the morsel placed directly in his mouth by Christ. It doesn’t say that Judas was the only one who received by hand, but that Judas and everyone else received by mouth.

I presume the inference comes from the fact that, in that Gospel account, at least, Jesus dipped the bread before giving it to Judas, and He wouldn’t dip the bread and then plop the wet bread into someone’s hand. The quoted writer is saying, “Even though Jesus is described as preparing such a special morsel of bread only for Judas, we can presume he would have done the same for everyone else at the table.”

Usagi
 
I don’t think anyone has actually read the relevant sections of the Gospels - all four of them.

There is no indication of whether the bread dipped into the dish was the the consecrated “paschal bread” which Jesus broke and gave to the disciples or some other bread.

First of all, only John’s Gospel says that Jesus dipped the bread and gave it to Judas. The synoptic Gospels say that the betrayer dipped the bread with Jesus.

Matthew and Mark also do not recount the actual act of dipping. There is no way to know if it was before or after consecration. It could have been some other bread not consecrated or could have been before the consecration. There is no way to tell.

Similarly, John’s Gospel does not have the institution narrative and so there is no way to tell if the bread dipped by Jesus was the consecrated paschal bread. The whole morsel incident could have been before the consecration. Judas takes the bread, leaves and then Jesus launches into a prayer for the next four chapters. The prayer ends with Jesus and the eleven going across the Kidron Valley to the garden. There is no institution narrative.

Luke is completely silent on the whole issue of dipping. Luke only says that the tweleve Apostles were present and that the hand of the betrayer was at table.

I remain totally unconvinced that the bread dipped was the Eucharist and would love for someone to convince me from Scripture. I have a very strong devotion to Sacred Scripture and would love to learn so please correct me if I have read incorrectly. Perhaps there is something particular to the passover meal I have overlooked and I welcome (name removed by moderator)ut from those more educated than I.

-Tim-
 
JoeJPurnell said:
“One can suppose that during the Last Supper Christ would have given
the bread to each apostle directly in the mouth and not only to Judas
Iscariot (see Jn 13:26–27).” Dominus Est—It Is the Lord! by Most Reverend
Athanasius Schneider

“Jesus answered, ‘It is the one to whom I hand the morsel after I have dipped it.’ So he dipped the morsel and [took it and] handed it to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot.” Jn 13:26

The Bishop is saying we can suppose that this verse indicates that Judas was the only one who received the Eucharist in the hand and that all the others received on the tongue. What do you think?

God bless
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One can “suppose” many things, including the inference here that equates receiving in the hand to betraying Christ – the only possible conclusion I can draw from the cited quote. Is there anything in Jewish tradition or ritual practice that provides any basis at all to “suppose” that in the setting of the Passover meal, or really any meal, one man would have put food directly into the mouths of other men?
 
Hmmm…
Matthew shows Jesus with the bread, that he "broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ "
So, he gave it to them and told them to take it. I usually visualize “giving” and “taking” to be accomplished by handing something into someone else’s hand. Also, sitting around a table, I do not picture Jesus getting up and walking to each of the 12 and putting it in their mouths, but rather passing half to his left and half to his right, which they then pass to each other, hand to hand.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think receiving it on the tongue was defined at a later date as a means of respect for Christ’s body.
 
I always believed after Judas dipped his hand in the bowl with Jesus…he was told to leave & do what he was about to do quickly. After he left, Jesus gave the bread, His Body, to the apostles & at the end of the meal gave them the wine which was now, His Blood.
 
truetofaith said:
I always believed after Judas dipped his hand in the bowl with Jesus…he was told to leave & do what he was about to do quickly. After he left, Jesus gave the bread, His Body, to the apostles & at the end of the meal gave them the wine which was now, His Blood.
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Luke doesn’t mention the dipping at all. Matthew and Mark say that Judas dipped his hand in the bowl with Jesus. John says that Jesus dipped and gave it to Judas. There isn’t even continuity in the Gospels.

The entire argument about receiving in the hand is silly. What bother’s me is that people seem to be arguing about the Bible without actually having read it.

-Tim-
 
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