Supposed similarities between the early church and LDS?

[TexanKnight]

Fair enough - What I was trying to address was the idea of God wanting to restart something that had proven a failure…After all, God started the world with Adam and Eve…that was “The church” - that is - the community (ekklesia) but later found that He need to “restart” it…

again, apples and oranges. In the flood, god though humanity had gone over the edge. It was humanity that needed a new start. His “Church” was His. IT did not need a new start. God did not fail, the people did. People failing did not mean a new Church was needed or that the old church needed to go away.

Mormons believe that God did the opposite. People failed, so God left the people and cancelled, for 1800 years, His Church. That, despite God had NEVER done that and PROMISED His Church would never fail. See the difference?

Peace
James

 

[Amo_a_Jesus]

Did you need to study a lot, be an apologist, to believe or not that an angel appear to Smith to fund a new church? no offense to any Mormon brother, believe me that I love as my brother but for a regular guy like me is to hard to Believe Smith more then The King of Kings The only , the first and the last, the alpha and the omega… My Lord Jesus Christ !!

 

[JRKH]

again, apples and oranges. In the flood, god though humanity had gone over the edge. It was humanity that needed a new start. His “Church” was His. IT did not need a new start. God did not fail, the people did. People failing did not mean a new Church was needed or that the old church needed to go away.

Mormons believe that God did the opposite. People failed, so God left the people and cancelled, for 1800 years, His Church. That, despite God had NEVER done that and PROMISED His Church would never fail. See the difference?

NO problem - like I said - I was just playing devils advocate in reply to Eddie’s post…If I had the time to continue I still think that an argument could be made - - - not that I buy into it mind you - because simply do not believe that the Apostasy could be proved…

However - I think it could be argued by the flood story that God might take something that had “proved a failure” (the pre-flood communities) and start it all over again…

Peace
James

 

[TexanKnight]

NO problem - like I said - I was just playing devils advocate in reply to Eddie’s post…If I had the time to continue I still think that an argument could be made - - - not that I buy into it mind you - because simply do not believe that the Apostasy could be proved…

However - I think it could be argued by the flood story that God might take something that had “proved a failure” (the pre-flood communities) and start it all over again…

Peace
James

perhaps…but there is NO History of God giving up on HIS Church…

people? sometimes…His Church? Never

 

[Strevel]

The LDS have no dates when they say their … apostacy took place. They cannot show proof of it, they have no historical records, they just want it to be so…tthen they believe it to be so. sorta like … SANTA… He is as real as their apostacy is.

Don, Vegas

If the Church had truly fallen into apostasy by the time of the writings of the Church Fathers (as your friend said), then the true Church (according to your friend) must have been gone by AD 70. However, my understanding is that LDS believe the Great Apostasy occurred somewhere near AD 200.

 

[taylorf]

From an 1984 Ensign article on the apostasy:

We do know that in the early years following the resurrection of Jesus the Apostles added additional members to their number as vacancies required. Eventually, however, the succession ended. By A.D. 95 only John remained, as far as we know. When John left his public ministry, apostleship ceased. Had it been God’s will, others certainly could have been chosen. But clearly it was not. The apostasy did not happen because the Apostles were gone; the Apostles were taken because the apostasy had occurred.

Elder Mark E. Petersen stated, “But this all had been predicted. The Lord foresaw this apostasy. As he would not perform further miracles before the unbelievers at Capernaum, neither would he leave his anointed Twelve in an apostate group. So John was taken from among men.”

Looks like the church’s date of apostasy is 100 A.D. I was taught that the apostasy occurred because apostles were killed off and the authority was lost. However, this article seems to indicate that no one believed anymore and the apostles and nothing to do, so God no longer had interest in it and took them away. Bizarre perspective. I guess the devil needed only 40 or so years to destroy the truth Jesus established and the work of His apostles.

 

[Strevel]

Having been a practicing, temple attending, Mormon in the past I can tell you factually that they have no basis for this claim of a falling away, or the deeper meaning, Apostacy. The historical use of the word, “Falling Away” is the lack of activity of the members, the loss of interest, and an anemic level of loosing people that is comparable to what the LDS are experiencing today. They baptise ten converts to keep one. The deeper word “Apostacy” infers the loss of Priesthood Authority" and all the ramifications that go with it. There is no evidence to show that an apostacy ever happened, even in the eyes of the Mormons. The Mormons cannot show one shred of evidence, even within their own Sunday School classes, Priesthood (adult mens class), Relief Society (adulr womens class) or any other group that an Apostacy ever happened. And that is really sad that they have no evidence, created or otherwise, to back up their idea of an apostacy that caused them to be needed. They rushed on stage to save the world because…well, because a boy that lied a lot made up a good line and got enough to believe it. They were not persecuted as they moved from town to town. They had problems with the law due to stealing, Joseph Smiths friendliness with the ladies in an area. He was wanted by several states (states printed their own $ then) for forging $ to buy the supplies for the trip out west! They do not tell you this as many of them just believe the self serving line they are given by the equally self serving leadership in Salt Lake. He copulated with a 14 year old and…well, historical records and journal entries from people that personally knew him out weight the LDS CHurches publicity department.
There was no Apostacy, there is no historical record of anything that my old faith (Mormon) claims in a thinly veiled attempt to try to look big and look authoratative. The LDS hold as much Priesthood authorative power as the cashier at the store has the authority to write you a parking ticket. The Catholics hold that Priesthood authority direct tracing it to Jesus Christ himself. He said that the gates of Hell (Mormons) would not prevail against it. If Jesus said it I wonder about those that argue with him.

Don, Las Vegas

QUOTE=TexanKnight;11379770]perhaps…but there is NO History of God giving up on HIS Church…

people? sometimes…His Church? Never