Survey: Religious superiors support possibility of women deacons

[MikeInVA]

Take a look at the survey

The survey was conducted by a fairly liberal institution (Georgetown). The respondents were mostly from progressive orders/communities. The results were neither surprising nor representative of the overall Catholic Church. And as it was pointed out, the Church is not a democracy.

 

[thistle]

You seem to have this mistaken view that correlation equals causation. IT DOES NOT!!

 

[YourNameHere]

In other words, more educated people tend to be liberal or progressive?

 

[MikeInVA]

I’m not sure where you got that. I said that when a progressive institution asks progressives for their opinion on a progressive issue the results will be skewed.

 

[commenter]

The secular media can and
will provide a platform so that their influence is far more than marginal.

 

[commenter]

Yes. Really. How can you have a reunion between two churches if one church does not recognize the Sacraments of the other as valid?

At one time you could talk about the “Orthodox Church” as somewhat a single united entity. This is less and less so, as some authorities within EO have now accepted contraception, and divorce/remarriage, at least to a limited number of marriages. Other authorities in Orthodoxy hold to the traditional view.

So the RCC realistically will not be looking towards reunion with all EO, though that will always be an ideal. More likely in the near future will be reunion with parts of EO, and seeking a compatible, friendly relationship with the rest of EO.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

AlNg:

Take a look at the survey

The survey was conducted by a fairly liberal institution (Georgetown). The respondents were mostly from progressive orders/communities. The results were neither surprising nor representative of the overall Catholic Church. And as it was pointed out, the Church is not a democracy.

Are you suggesting that there are some “conservative” conferences which Georgetown deliberately did not contact? If so, what are they and are they recognized by the church?

 

[MikeInVA]

Maybe you missed it earlier in the thread, but while the surveys went out to a broader demographic, the preponderance of the responses were from progressive orders/communities.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Maybe you missed it earlier in the thread, but while the surveys went out to a broader demographic, the preponderance of the responses were from progressive orders/communities.

According to whom? Not according to the study. The study stated that although the response rate was 50% the overall proportions for each remained virtually the same.

I mentioned this up thread. Footnote 7 on page 23 I believe.

 

[MikeInVA]

Do you mean this footnote:

7 In all there were 407 units contacted and invited to participate from LCWR and CMSWR lists. Some 290 were from LCWR (71%) and 117 from CMSWR (29%). Three units are members of both lists. Among respondents, the ratio of LCWR and CMSWR members is identical (43% + 17% / 60% = a ratio of 72% for LCWR and 28% for CMSWR). Thus, among respondents, LCWR and CMSWR are in nearly perfect proportion to their presence in the population of possible participants.

As I read this, 71% of the surveys went out to LCWR units, and the percentage of responses from both lists were the same, so 71% of the responses are from LCWR units.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Do you mean this footnote:

7 In all there were 407 units contacted and invited to participate from LCWR and CMSWR lists. Some 290 were from LCWR (71%) and 117 from CMSWR (29%). Three units are members of both lists. Among respondents, the ratio of LCWR and CMSWR members is identical (43% + 17% / 60% = a ratio of 72% for LCWR and 28% for CMSWR). Thus, among respondents, LCWR and CMSWR are in nearly perfect proportion to their presence in the population of possible participants.

Yes, that footnote. You’ve misread it. 404 surveys total for just those two groups (770 went out for all 4 groups I believe). From those two groups 290 responded. The proportion between those two groups was maintained.

So, no the LCWR were not over represented when compared to the CMSWR.

The CMSWR is just a much smaller conference.

 

[commenter]

The CMSWR is just a much smaller conference

Depends on how you look at it. Keep in mind both “conferences” don’t include all sisters, but only designated “superiors”. The study could have surveyed all sisters (and all male religious). They did not. The conferences do not “represent” this or that proportion of SISTERS. Just certain designated leaders, however that gets interpreted.

In terms of sisters currently working in some church ministry, it is likely there are now more in convents related to CMSWR than LCWR. In 5 years there will be far more.

 

[edwest211]

Yes, this is true.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

Anyone ever watched the show Seventh Heaven? The one about a pastor and his family and their trials and tribulations? It’s a great example why the church should avoid married priests. On several occasions the pastor had to neglect his pastoral duties for his family and the opposite. Just figured I would throw that out there.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I think the stated point of the survey was to get a feel for how some of the US hierarchy views the issue rather than to get an idea of how every consecrated religious feels about it. Thus, the surveys went to majors superiors only.

 

[Dovekin]

In terms of sisters currently working in some church ministry, it is likely there are now more in convents related to CMSWR than LCWR. In 5 years there will be far more.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Why are you making up numbers?

The average size of LCWR is 105, CMSWR is 76. That is, 29k v. 8k members. Elsewhere you can see that 2/3 women are active in ministry, which means that there are at least twice as many active in the LCWR as there are in CMSWR. (2/3X(29+8)=24k active; if 100% of CMSWR are active, 24-8=16)

 

[OraLabora]

On several occasions the pastor had to neglect his pastoral duties for his family and the opposite.

Many have to do that for their jobs, including doctors. Especially doctors.

Should we also force doctors to remain single?

 

[mrsdizzyd]

The average size of LCWR is 105, CMSWR is 76. That is, 29k v. 8k members. Elsewhere you can see that 2/3 women are active in ministry, which means that there are at least twice as many active in the LCWR as there are in CMSWR. (2/3X(29+8)=24k active; if 100% of CMSWR are active, 24-8=16)

It will take considerably more than 5 years for the LCWR to collapse.

 

[dochawk]

Hypothesis testing does not prove causation. Suppose your significance level alpha is 1%. If the observed value is in the critical region you will reject the null hypothesis and you can be at least 99% sure that you are right, But I don’t see where this proves causation. Further, there is an additional problem if your critical region is too small you could end up making a type II error and accepting the null hypothesis, even though it is false. How are you going to determine the size of the critical region objectively?

in this particular case? It’s going to be a staggering amount of work, and may or may not be possible.

And to be an expert in statistics you will need to take Stat 300 and Stat 400 at least, but probably more.

Definitely. But if I’m going to teach without any prep, I’m not doing it above the 200 level. Come to think of it, I’ve never taught it at above the 500 level (Master’s).

Among my 600 level, though involved several weeks with unit root tests for only handful of aberrations (by Fuller. Yes, that Fuller*. I’ve also taken Set Theory from Halmos ).

And further, you should have passed at least the first two actuary exams to understand many real life applications, especially in the insurance industry.

I was thinking about taking them a few years ago, and never got around to it. When I spoke to a national actuarial recruiter, I liked the salaries he quoted, but wasn’t willing to move out of state. (and, frankly, it’s not an area I find exciting).

hawk

 

[AlNg]

it’s not an area I find exciting

Mr. Hawk: What type of work do you find to be exciting? Most every line of work, whatever it may be, has its own set of problems.