Suspecting child abuse/grooming-- Need opinions and perspective

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Virga

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Hi all,

I need your opinions on how to approach a situation in the family and prayers. I haven’t been able to sleep for a while, so sorry if my thoughts aren’t very organized. It’s a long post.

First some background info:

I’m sensitive to signs of possible child abuse or crossed-boundaries, though I would never state I know for sure 100% based on these signs… I’ve made poor decisions before, by sharing with my family my suspicions and hoping they would either keep an eye out or at least take my thoughts seriously. Most of the time, they balked at the idea or even if they agreed something was weird, that it wasn’t up to us to say too much.

For example, one time, I brought up the fact that one of my BIL would occasionally stroke his 14-15 year old step-daughter’s thigh and things of the like. He would even do it with my family present when no one seemed to be looking. Their solution was to tell my niece that she should understand it wasn’t appropriate and to keep the boundaries… They didn’t say anything to her mom or step-dad. No report. I admit how unfair and unjust that is to my niece to have her go through it alone and what a poor decision that was.

My point is my family does not respond well to these things… My dad was even angry and frustrated at another sister for calling 911 when her husband threw her on the bed several times while having an argument [he has a history of abusing her, strangling, punching, pushing off stairs].

Now for the current situation… My sister and BIL [different from the one I mentioned earlier] have 5 kids. Four of the kids are now between 3 to 10 years old. They act out in a lot of ways, though it’s not surprising. Their mom would constantly berate the children, particularly the girls, for almost everything. The father would also constantly criticize the oldest girl who is 15 [she still receives corporal punishment], and he is especially harsh and mean towards the two younger boys. He’s also dragged my sister --his wife and tried to push her head under a bathtub faucet while turning on the water before, though I haven’t heard of anything lately. He is especially rough with the kids, but not enough that I felt I should call CPS yet…

To the point now, I’ve had suspicions about a friend of my sister and her husband. Let’s call the friend Ron. Ron’s been helping them for years watching their kids, but about 3 years ago --though I’ve tried to convince myself otherwise, I’ve had growing suspicions that he may be preying on my nieces and nephews.

Ron would always offer to watch the kids, to bathe them, to do the family laundry, to take the kids out, to buy them gifts. Now I tried to think to myself he’s a nice guy for wanting to help the kids out when they have such difficult parents, but I felt it was too much for him to bathe my niece who was 7-8 at the time.

I mentioned the strangeness of it all to my family. They thought it was a little unusual too and even joked about how weird it was that Ron always did the bathed the kids and even my sister’s laundry. But they said he was probably lonely since he never seemed to have a girlfriend. Ron used to be interested in my sister, let’s call him Lynn [a different sister from the one he’s helping], and he mentioned he felt attracted to her since she was in middle school, which means he was in his 20’s at the time. My sister Lynn and dad told me. A few years ago, Lynn was currently dating BIL when Ron tried to date her. During that time there was an incident in which he made Lynn’s daughter cry, but Lynn said her daughter wouldn’t say what it was.

Anyway, currently, Ron seemed to stop coming over to bathe them. Nowadays, he still occasionally take the kids out, except he doesn’t take the boys or my oldest niece anymore or at least rarely. The boys have become very difficult and rude. He doesn’t seem to buy them toys much anymore either though he may for the younger girls.

However, he takes my 10 year old niece around a lot. Let’s call her Charity. Yesterday, Charity went to play tennis with her mom and Ron in the early morning, but the thing is she always goes to his house afterwards. She spent the whole day there. And she does this often. I used to think it would be obvious why she wouldn’t want to be home, even if the only thing they do at Ron’s house is watch TV.

But two nights ago, my suspicions came back when he visited our home. My sister and her family are currently living with us [My BIL had chemo/radiation for throat cancer]. Anyway at one point Charity was sitting on a chair, and Ron walks over and basically sits on her and leans on her. I wasn’t sure how to react… My sister and BIL didn’t blink an eye. She started turning her body away and so was laying horizontally on the chair and Ron started rubbing/stroking her back, while he was on top of her. I couldn’t tell if Charity was uncomfortable or not, but she didn’t seem happy either. They were in this position for at least 10 minutes, but then I left for a bit. When I came back 5-10 minutes later they were gone. I’m not sure if Ron went home. I couldn’t help but recognize this as a sort of grooming tactic, where he would make it seem innocent and at the same time make my niece feel nothing was off about what he was doing since other people were arround. I would never make an assumption based on a single sign, but there are too many little things that just jump out at me.

I’m not sure if I should have said something then, but one thing holding me back was that I didn’t want to say something in front of my sister and BIL. They love him for taking care of their kids so often. And aside from what I’m afraid of, he really does seem awesome for being able to devote so much time to helping out the family.

Continued below
 
Now last year, I suspected something was up with Charity. She didn’t eat much, even less than usual and would stare off into space a lot. Now I thought to myself she might have been depressed from all the criticisms from her mom and the constant fighting in the family. Her mom also told her she ate too much and would get fat a lot; Charity was and is thin. She’s particularly vulnerable and sort of awkward, which would make her an easy target for grooming. I can’t help but worry about it.

Tomorrow Charity and her sister are going over to Ron’s house again to bake… Or today actually. I’ll be taking them out for lunch before that. I don’t know what to do.

I’ve thought about talking to her alone and mentioning about boundaries and how she could tell me anything etc… Trying to tell her things about what to look out for. But I know that once a child has already been groomed, if they feel an attachment to the abuser, they’ll head straight to the abuser to bring up the subject. I’ve had personal experience with that myself…

Telling my sister and BIL seem out of the question. Normally, I would feel inclined to ask my family for their opinion, but these last few years have shown me how it made things worse… They share things too easily. The abuser then kept his distance for a while and might have preyed on others in the mean time.

I’ve thought of calling CPS, but I’m pretty sure my family will know it was me who called and will then distance the children from me if nothing happens. It’s happened before even before I called, when I was worried about things going on in my family. I’m just worried there isn’t enough to go on to make the call without risking more condemnation from my family… But what I worry about most is I won’t be able to help my nieces and nephews, because of it.

So please, offer your view on whether or not I have something to worry about. What would be the best course of action? Do I speak to my niece alone first later today? Or should I call CPS first?

Unfortunately, it’s a lot more complicated as I believe there is another person who may be abusing the kids in this family. But for now I wish to focus on this particular issue.

I admit my family tends to think I am paranoid about the issue, but to me, it just happens to be that my family has a lot of issues that they aren’t willing to face.

And please pray for my family thanks!
 
If this is going on in your home, at the very least tell Ron he is strictly forbidden from coming over
 
Perhaps you can go online and read this program, Virtuus-protecting God’s children it is a comprehensive program to see clear warning signs about abuse and how to prevent it from occuring.-- if enough red flags appear in this situation, then call cps.

I am on my way out or I would have posted the link-

If not-you can tell your familly about this great program-so they can learn how to be trusting of adults who their children have in contact with but with safety precautions in place at all times.
 
Child sexual abuse is the most horrific crime ever. When you take your niece to lunch I would have a very blunt conversation with her. Ask her what is going on. You may be the only advocate these children have right now.
 
Those stories set off flags all over the place. Who let’s adult friends bathe their 8 year old children??? That’s extremely weird, (unless a child has mobility issues issues or something that requires assistance.) And if someone sat on my niece or child that way, I’d tell him to get off her. With all you describe, I wouldn’t let Ron in my home–and I certainly wouldn’t drive any children to his house for unsupervised time with him.

If I was the mother, I’d take the child “Charity” to a trusted family doctor for an exam. If there was any physical sign of abuse, I’d contact the police and ask to talk to a detective who investigates child sexual abuse then ask the police detective how to proceed. Since you’re not the mother, I’d perhaps ask her if I could take the child to the doctor because you think she needs to see a doctor. I’d be vague or maybe offer this when she has signs of a cold or needs a flu shot or has some other reason to see a doctor. Doctors are mandatory reports, so if the doctor suspects abuse, you won’t have to be the one who contacts CPS. Since they seem to give adults access to their children maybe she will say okay to you taking the child to the doctor without asking too many questions.
 
I would definitely do something about this. Of course, you only gave us your side of the story, but based on so many incidences of strange occurrences, I don’t really think that there is much room for coincidence. As such, I would definitely bring it up with the girl during your lunch and then say something to someone. And if her parents aren’t taking caring of their children properly and don’t intend to improve themselves, then they don’t deserve to be their guardians anymore.

May God grant your family peace during this difficult time. :hug3:
 
Call CPS. They won’t reveal who called.
Do it asap.
If it’s nothing, it’s nothing. If there needs to be intervention, they will do it.
You must report.
Red flags everywhere.
 
Call CPS. They won’t reveal who called.
Do it asap.
If it’s nothing, it’s nothing. If there needs to be intervention, they will do it.
You must report.
Red flags everywhere.
I agree with this! Let the authorities be the ones to do the questioning as they’re trained in this. If there’s a possibility of prosecution then they will have done it in a lawful way. Don’t let this go on - my family did and more children were hurt.

I am praying that God will help you thru this.

Rita
 
Those stories set off flags all over the place. Who let’s adult friends bathe their 8 year old children??? That’s extremely weird, (unless a child has mobility issues issues or something that requires assistance.) And if someone sat on my niece or child that way, I’d tell him to get off her. With all you describe, I wouldn’t let Ron in my home–and I certainly wouldn’t drive any children to his house for unsupervised time with him.

If I was the mother, I’d take the child “Charity” to a trusted family doctor for an exam. If there was any physical sign of abuse, I’d contact the police and ask to talk to a detective who investigates child sexual abuse then ask the police detective how to proceed. Since you’re not the mother, I’d perhaps ask her if I could take the child to the doctor because you think she needs to see a doctor. I’d be vague or maybe offer this when she has signs of a cold or needs a flu shot or has some other reason to see a doctor. Doctors are mandatory reports, so if the doctor suspects abuse, you won’t have to be the one who contacts CPS. Since they seem to give adults access to their children maybe she will say okay to you taking the child to the doctor without asking too many questions.
This is great advice. And if the doctor needs the helps of a child psychologist with training in child abuse, the are amazing at getting traumatized children to open up to them. I will pray for you and your family. This has to be very emotional to you.
 
Those stories set off flags all over the place. Who let’s adult friends bathe their 8 year old children??? That’s extremely weird, (unless a child has mobility issues issues or something that requires assistance.) And if someone sat on my niece or child that way, I’d tell him to get off her. With all you describe, I wouldn’t let Ron in my home–and I certainly wouldn’t drive any children to his house for unsupervised time with him.

If I was the mother, I’d take the child “Charity” to a trusted family doctor for an exam. If there was any physical sign of abuse, I’d contact the police and ask to talk to a detective who investigates child sexual abuse then ask the police detective how to proceed. Since you’re not the mother, I’d perhaps ask her if I could take the child to the doctor because you think she needs to see a doctor. I’d be vague or maybe offer this when she has signs of a cold or needs a flu shot or has some other reason to see a doctor. Doctors are mandatory reports, so if the doctor suspects abuse, you won’t have to be the one who contacts CPS. Since they seem to give adults access to their children maybe she will say okay to you taking the child to the doctor without asking too many questions.
In some states Everyone is considered a mandatory reporter. I wouldn’t go this route with this situation. It is not her job to investigate. In fact that may cause the child to clam up about the situation, and I would not take the child to have a full pelvic exam by a physician to determine child abuse…all that I would do is just call the child abuse hotline that is available in the state of residence…and just report to them what I am seeing in the situation…and then leave it up to them to investigate.
 
Be there for your niece: build a strong relationship, where she can confide in you, teach her appropriate boundaries and defense, and encourage her self-esteem.
 
Call CPS. They won’t reveal who called.
Do it asap.
If it’s nothing, it’s nothing. If there needs to be intervention, they will do it.
You must report.
Red flags everywhere.
I agree without a doubt; call NOW.
 
Yes you need to report this!

Frankly, your family in general sounds “off.” Either there is more abuse going on than you’re posting about (which is fine – we don’t need to know about it to opine on this situation), or there’s more abuse going on than you’re aware of.

A normal adult spends time with other adults. Normal adults with various social needs meet those needs through other adults. They may very well enjoy time with other people’s kids – but they don’t seek out other people’s kids for the sake of meeting their own personal needs. They need a confidant? A friend? A lover? Advice? Normally, they seek those things from another adult.

When a normal adult spends time with other people’s kids, s/he is giving something to that child – something that child can benefit from. Specialized instruction. A particular service that the child’s parent can’t provide for one reason or another. Something along those lines. They might even have a special friendship – but then that’s going to be a wide open friendship, without even a hint of untoward behavior to it.

In what way does a healthy 7 or 8 year old girl need anyone other than her parents (i.e. her mother) to help her take a bath?

And the whole sitting on her thing? Ew. Just ew. For ten freaking minutes? Ew to the nth degree. I mean, again, I can envisage a situation where that might be funny – but when the child isn’t laughing about it, when a normal person is made uncomfortable by it, and when it goes on for TEN MINUTES???

Ew.

Call CPS. I pray you are in a state with a CPS that is not overloaded, that has well trained personnel, that has the ability to handle this professionally. Even if you have your doubts and concerns about CPS where you are – CALL THEM. Or, call your local law enforcement agency and let them deal with it. People get absolutely no training in how to be aunts and uncles – but law enforcement and CPS at least gets cursory training in detecting child abuse.

Besides – if Ron is as ew as he sounds, I wonder what he’s got on his computer that is also ew.
 
We all have a responsibility to protect children. It’s as that old saying goes: “it takes a village”. God gave us intuition for a reason, he also surrounded us with angels to feed those intuitions and help guide us in the right direction.
This “Ron” sounds off. He is preying not only on your niece, but on your entire family. Your Sister and BIL are clearly struggling and “Ron” has noticed this. He recognizes a broken family because he feeds off them. he’s a parasite and must be removed.
There is NO reason for a non family member to bathe a healthy 7 or 8 year old (of course, there are exceptions). I can’t think of ONE of my male friends even ever considering it! NOT ONE would have offered. Absolutely NO reason why a 10 year old girl should be spending alone time at home with a male family friend. Any grown man that doesnt have cruel intensions would understand the danger in this… why would a man even put himself in a position where he could be suspected of foul play? There is no way a grown man should be cuddling and stroking a 10 year old’s back- especially not for 10 minutes… and especially not in front of her family. I’m not judging you- but in your case I would have removed her from that situation in a second had it happened in front of me to one of my nieces or nephews… and knowing me- I woundn’t have been very subtle about it.
I know you’re worried about creating ripples and drama in your family, but if the children in your life are being victimized- you HAVE to do something. Your nieces and nephews are helpless, they need your help. I’d also start spending more time with her if I was you. Try taking his place- win her over. If she is being abused she’ll welcome any chance to get away with you for some safe time. You be her safety net. It sounds like she needs someone to intervene.
Your sister, having been victimized herself probably doesn’t recognize it in “Ron” because she appreciates and needs kindness. She doesn’t see his sinister agenda.

I would probably start by creating a barrier between my family and the parasite. Snuff his presence out, so to speak. Without accusing him of anything- because let’s face it- he seems creepy but no accusations have been made- make it known that you, as a family member, feel a need to be there for your nieces and nephews so you will be taking over. See how he reacts to this. If his intensions are true- he won’t have any issues stepping back and only maintaining a relationship with the adults if your family. When he is around- make sure he gets ZERO time alone with the kids- keep them busy. If he does manage to sit near them and become handsy- pull them out of the situation immediately.
I’d take my sister aside and have a very blunt conversation with her… asking her to wake up and pay close attention. I’d also have a serious conversation with my nieces and nephews on their own… as one of them may be more inclined and less scared to talk. Don’t plant ideas in their heads, don’t name names, but try to get them to open up. Show them what an acceptable adult/child relationship looks like. Make sure they know they always have someone to turn to- and that if anyone is, or has hurt them, that you can bring a world of hurt on this person in order to protect them. These kids are afraid and in most cases have been told family members will be harmed if they tell, or that nobody will believe them. And of course they do- because this man is allowed to stroke her in front of her family- and they send her to his home, alone, on a regular basis. Once the kids feel safe with you, if something did happen, they will open up about it. Just make sure you create a safe environment for conversation - without making accusations or planting ideas. You don’t want to lead them into making false accusations. If they do open up- 100% believe them and report the abuse immediately to their parents. If they dont get on board then it falls on you to take the reigns. Make good on your promises to protect them.

All that done- if he has the nerve to call me on it I’d flat out tell him why I was cutting him off. Let’s face it- pedo’s are the lowest of the low- they prey on our most innocent and pure citizens… they aren’t scared of kids- but they ARE scared of a grown adult threatening to pull the plug on them.

If nothing has happened, then good, either way you have solidified yourself in your nieces and nephews lives, which is how it should be. And if something DID happen- then you’ve saved some innocent lives… and countless others no doubt.

One more thing- you mention this isn’t the only case you suspect in your family circle. Abuse fuels abuse. A child who is abused and exploited is more likely to enter into an abusive relationship later in life. Those children are also more likely to become abusers themselves. Don’t allow those around you to suffer in silence. The kids, or the adults. Be a hero in someone’s life… end the cycle.
 
I just got back from having lunch with my nieces a while ago. I tried to have a talk about boundaries in general with them and reminding them of how it’s okay to always say no to whoever is touching them when they feel uncomfortable. They should never feel guilty or think it’s their fault when someone is touching them against their will, even if it may feel good. I tried to let them know I would be there for them no matter what. I didn’t speak specifically to Charity, out of fear she might feel pressured or clam up. I said I will talk to their other siblings and cousins too, because I love them and it’s important they know how to recognize danger and learn to stand up for themselves in these situations. I also mentioned as an example of how Ron sat on Charity as inappropriate and how I should have said something. Charity said it was okay and it was joking around… But I said he’s an adult man and he shouldn’t being doing something like that, even if it seems harmless. I’m not sure how she took it… Just hoping the rest of it helps her somehow.

The plan was for them to go to his house to bake right now, but he texted my niece about 30 minutes ago saying they should reschedule the baking for next week because his kitchen smells at night (?) and they could simply hang out instead. I was with her at the time, so I said to Charity to stay home today. No point in going over there to hang out when we have a TV here too. My sister suggested he could just bake here with them since our baking materials are here anyway. My niece says he just responded saying they can bake next week instead.

I’ll look up the CPS number. I’ll try to explain the situation I know about so far and ask for their advice and help tonight.

Thank you for all your replies. It was very helpful. I often get frustrated and angry with myself because of my hesitation and doubts. I struggle with questioning whether or not I really am paranoid, but reading all your responses has me feeling more confident that it’s better to seek help than to wait. If I’m wrong, then wonderful; I don’t want it to be true. If I’m right, then it’s better that I didn’t wait.

Oh and to clear some things up, we’re all living with my parents right now, so it’s not my home exactly. I’d be in trouble for trying to kick someone out. Yes, some of my siblings have had a history of being sexually abused too, including my sister the mom. Most of my family members don’t cope healthily when facing these sorts of situations and tend to react negatively… But I will try to talk to my sister at the right time.

Thanks again for the help and please continue with prayers if possible.
 
Praying for your family.
I would definitely not allow a ten year old to go over to “bake” at an adult friend’s house. That’s too weird, and as others have pointed out, even if he’s just a kind-hearted soul, he’s putting himself in danger of accusations.
If her mother wants her to have baking lessons, let it be at the family home, with other adults present. You, preferably, since you seem to be the only one with any sense.
Congratulations on having a talk with the girls. It sounds like you did a fine job. I know it’s hard, since it’s a sensitive subject. And I’m glad there was no “hanging out”. Grown men don’t hang out with ten year olds.
I’m glad you are going to call CPS. Keep up the good work, years from now they will thank you, although it may be rough to go through now.
God bless.

.
 
and I would not take the child to have a full pelvic exam by a physician to determine child abuse…
I’m horrified that a pelvic exam would be performed on a child. Is this the way they can physically see, for certainty, if a child has been abused in that way? How horrible! She would scream with the pain, and be traumatized all over again. If this is what they do. I’m an adult middle-aged woman and I can’t handle those damned exams. Haven’t had one for quite a while, and will never go through it again. I only quoted you, whether or not you see this, to ask if this is what some poor little girls have to go through?

In general comment to the thread, this Ron sounds absolutely horrible. Rubbing her back and giving a child a bath is just wrong. Crazy. I would get her far away from him and protect her, and do it now, before it’s too late!
 
In general comment to the thread, this Ron sounds absolutely horrible. Rubbing her back and giving a child a bath is just wrong. Crazy. I would get her far away from him and protect her, and do it now, before it’s too late!
Ron is a creep, even if everything was above board. No man should be acting like that (laying on young girls, bathing stranger’s children, baking - blech), and his penchant for doing someone else’s laundry is a dead give away. Real men don’t even want to do their own.*

** Kidding, I do my family’s laundry.*
 
I’m horrified that a pelvic exam would be performed on a child. Is this the way they can physically see, for certainty, if a child has been abused in that way? How horrible! She would scream with the pain, and be traumatized all over again. If this is what they do. I’m an adult middle-aged woman and I can’t handle those damned exams. Haven’t had one for quite a while, and will never go through it again. I only quoted you, whether or not you see this, to ask if this is what some poor little girls have to go through?
Yes, When a medical examiner is asked to do an exam for suspected sex abuse/assault. They will need to visual look at private parts, pictures may need to be obtained of those parts, swabs may need to be obtained of those parts. An exam of this nature is not like bringing a child to the doctor to r/o an ear infection…in which all they need to do is look into a child’s ear. A sex abuse medical exam is much much more involved than that and yes it can be very damaging to the dignity of the victim. Which is why I say, I would not recommend that route, unless someone with legal authority, in the midst of their investigation (such as CPS) determines that this exam from a physician/nurse examiner is necessary.
 
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