Swapping psalms at Mass

[gibbs]

At the parish I belong to, they do something that I’m confused about. The Saturday Mass follows the readings/psalms in the missal. But at the Sunday Mass, they tend to switch the psalm text/refrain. From what I can tell, they have 4 or 5 different sets that they like to do and tend to repeat them over and over. Even when they do the ones in the missal (very rare) they often change the wording. Is that OK? I find it annoying as I like to read them before Mass starts looking for the connections and to help me focus on them at Mass. My understanding is that the readings/psalms are connected to show the old testament being fulfilled in the new and to present church teachings etc… That plus I like to sing/read along and and can’t always tell exactly what they are singing when they change it.

 

[Phemie]

At the parish I belong to, they do something that I’m confused about. The Saturday Mass follows the readings/psalms in the missal. But at the Sunday Mass, they tend to switch the psalm text/refrain. From what I can tell, they have 4 or 5 different sets that they like to do and tend to repeat them over and over. Even when they do the ones in the missal (very rare) they often change the wording. Is that OK? I find it annoying as I like to read them before Mass starts looking for the connections and to help me focus on them at Mass. My understanding is that the readings/psalms are connected to show the old testament being fulfilled in the new and to present church teachings etc… That plus I like to sing/read along and and can’t always tell exactly what they are singing when they change it.

We have choices available when it comes to the Psalm. GIRM 61 says:
In the Dioceses of the United States of America, instead of the Psalm assigned in the Lectionary, there may be sung either the Responsorial Gradual from the Graduale Romanum, or the Responsorial Psalm or the Alleluia Psalm from the Graduale Simplex, as described in these books, or an antiphon and Psalm from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, including Psalms arranged in metrical form, providing that they have been approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the Responsorial Psalm.

There are “Seasonal Psalms” which can be used for all of a specific season whether that be the Easter Season, Ordinary Time, Christmas, etc. That might be what they are doing at Sunday Mass. Do they sing them at both Masses or are they recited at the Saturday Mass and sung at the Sunday Mass? Sometimes the choir will opt for a seasonal psalm they know rather than learn a new psalm specific to the Sunday.

 

[1ke]

Is that OK?

Yes.

I find it annoying as I like to read them before Mass starts looking for the connections and to help me focus on them at Mass. My understanding is that the readings/psalms are connected to show the old testament being fulfilled in the new and to present church teachings etc… That plus I like to sing/read along and and can’t always tell exactly what they are singing when they change it.

Sorry about that. You can talk to your pastor and ask him to work with the choir director to more frequently sing the Psalm that is in the missalette/lectionary.

 

[agapewolf]

Sorry about that. You can talk to your pastor and ask him to work with the choir director to more frequently sing the Psalm that is in the missalette/lectionary.

Or…

you could go directly to the music director and inquire with him/her.

As a music director myself, can’t tell you how many times my pastor has been approached unnecessarily if the person would just talk with me first they’d have a satisfactory conversation.

I use seasonal psalms-- not all the time. but for many MANY reasons, and as you can see in this thread, its perfectly fine.

 

[Joe_5859]

Or…

you could go directly to the music director and inquire with him/her.

As a music director myself, can’t tell you how many times my pastor has been approached unnecessarily if the person would just talk with me first they’d have a satisfactory conversation.

I use seasonal psalms-- not all the time. but for many MANY reasons, and as you can see in this thread, its perfectly fine.

Just out of curiosity, what are some of the reasons, if you don’t mind sharing? I have always wondered why some parishes choose to do this.

 

[Neofight]

Or…

you could go directly to the music director and inquire with him/her.

As a music director myself, can’t tell you how many times my pastor has been approached unnecessarily if the person would just talk with me first they’d have a satisfactory conversation.

I use seasonal psalms-- not all the time. but for many MANY reasons, and as you can see in this thread, its perfectly fine.

Much better answer…running to the priest, pastor, or bishop first detracts from their ability to serve the flock in more pressing matters.

 

[1ke]

Much better answer…running to the priest, pastor, or bishop first detracts from their ability to serve the flock in more pressing matters.

I wasn’t suggesting “running to the priest”. The priest is the head liturgist of his parish.

 

[gibbs]

OK - Thanks everyone.

On Saturday (which is what I normally go to) they sing the psalm in the missal. On Sunday they sing the repetitious non-missal ones. But there are different groups of people leading the psalms from Saturday vs Sunday.

I haven’t approached anybody about it because I simply didn’t know one way or the other and it’s not exactly earth shattering either. But I do prefer the varied psalms from week to week that go with the readings.

 

[grotto]

At the parish I belong to, they do something that I’m confused about. The Saturday Mass follows the readings/psalms in the missal. But at the Sunday Mass, they tend to switch the psalm text/refrain. From what I can tell, they have 4 or 5 different sets that they like to do and tend to repeat them over and over. Even when they do the ones in the missal (very rare) they often change the wording. Is that OK? I find it annoying as I like to read them before Mass starts looking for the connections and to help me focus on them at Mass. My understanding is that the readings/psalms are connected to show the old testament being fulfilled in the new and to present church teachings etc… That plus I like to sing/read along and and can’t always tell exactly what they are singing when they change it.

---

You are soooo right!

 

[SMHW]

Just out of curiosity, what are some of the reasons, if you don’t mind sharing? I have always wondered why some parishes choose to do this.

I can’t speak for any other parish but I can tell you why we often use seasonal psalms at my parish. (FYI: I am not the music director but I am a choir member.)

1. 
   *]My parish has made the decision that psalms for Sunday Masses and Holy Days of Obligation will ALWAYS be sung/chanted rather than spoken.
   *] My parish believes that it is important that the parish participate in singing/chanting the response. As a result we might want to repeat new psalm settings until the people catch on.
   *]We have a number of published collections of psalms that musicians use but they generally don’t include ALL the psalms. For some psalms we have not been able to find settings that we think are appropriate so we use a seasonal psalm.
   *]We have a number of good psalmists but they are generally not competent to chant the psalm. The music director has limited time to teach them.
   *]We often use seasonal psalms for Advent, Lent, Christmas, and/or Easter as a kind of “theme” for the season. Sometimes the parish will have other events that tie into that theme.

 

[Joe_5859]

I can’t speak for any other parish but I can tell you why we often use seasonal psalms at my parish. (FYI: I am not the music director but I am a choir member.)

1. 
   *]My parish has made the decision that psalms for Sunday Masses and Holy Days of Obligation will ALWAYS be sung/chanted rather than spoken.
   *] My parish believes that it is important that the parish participate in singing/chanting the response. As a result we might want to repeat new psalm settings until the people catch on.
   *]We have a number of published collections of psalms that musicians use but they generally don’t include ALL the psalms. For some psalms we have not been able to find settings that we think are appropriate so we use a seasonal psalm.
   *]We have a number of good psalmists but they are generally not competent to chant the psalm. The music director has limited time to teach them.
   *]We often use seasonal psalms for Advent, Lent, Christmas, and/or Easter as a kind of “theme” for the season. Sometimes the parish will have other events that tie into that theme.

1. 
   Thanks. That makes sense.

 

[pianistclare]

Well, I guess I’m going to be the choir director out.
I drives me bonkers when our choir sings just the same catchy tunes and not the psalm of the day. The Psalms of the day go beautifully with the other readings. You can get the whole set in Respond and Acclaim. Most all the Psalms are in Gather. A person attending Mass on a regular basis “catches on” pretty readily.
Our previous choir director used the same seasonal song/psalm for every week in the Easter season every year. Sure the congregation belts it out. It’s pretty much the only one they know.
I’m now in the position of DRE in the current parish. We spend time explain to the all ages in Catechesis that it’s admirable to read the readings for the Mass in advance to reflect, and possibly gleam more from the homily. And when we get to church, it’s something totally different for the psalms. So the the question: Why does it matter? Why doesn’t the priest read whatever he wants? (these are kids, you know…they pick up on this stuff).
For my part, I believe it speaks more to just having a choice. When you give people options, they run with them. I’m not saying you shouldn’t EVER change them…there are some good reasons, but every single week? Come on. Drives me nuts.
No one ever had to ask me why, because I never messed with them. Our past 2 Directors here? Take out the boxing gloves. It’s their choice, and they won’t discuss it, and the pastor wants no part of it. Just get it done.
I believe a really good choir can learn, sing, and present the psalm with the congregation following nicely…but it takes regular rehearsals and prioritization. We did it for 16 years. No problem.
Now they just reprint the songsheets from last year and change the date. It’s embarrassing for the parish when they forget to change the date.
But it’s permitted…so…

 

[Joe_5859]

Well, I guess I’m going to be the choir director out.
I drives me bonkers when our choir sings just the same catchy tunes and not the psalm of the day. The Psalms of the day go beautifully with the other readings. You can get the whole set in Respond and Acclaim. Most all the Psalms are in Gather. A person attending Mass on a regular basis “catches on” pretty readily.
Our previous choir director used the same seasonal song/psalm for every week in the Easter season every year. Sure the congregation belts it out. It’s pretty much the only one they know.
I’m now in the position of DRE in the current parish. We spend time explain to the all ages in Catechesis that it’s admirable to read the readings for the Mass in advance to reflect, and possibly gleam more from the homily. And when we get to church, it’s something totally different for the psalms. So the the question: Why does it matter? Why doesn’t the priest read whatever he wants? (these are kids, you know…they pick up on this stuff).
For my part, I believe it speaks more to just having a choice. When you give people options, they run with them. I’m not saying you shouldn’t EVER change them…there are some good reasons, but every single week? Come on. Drives me nuts.
No one ever had to ask me why, because I never messed with them. Our past 2 Directors here? Take out the boxing gloves. It’s their choice, and they won’t discuss it, and the pastor wants no part of it. Just get it done.
I believe a really good choir can learn, sing, and present the psalm with the congregation following nicely…but it takes regular rehearsals and prioritization. We did it for 16 years. No problem.
Now they just reprint the songsheets from last year and change the date. It’s embarrassing for the parish when they forget to change the date.
But it’s permitted…so…

I’m more of your mindset, but I’ve never been a part of choir/music ministry, so I’ve no room to talk.

At my alma mater, each choir made up an arrangement to whatever the Psalm was for the day. And they did this every day. Granted it, they were college kids with free time and no family responsibilities. I never felt particularly at a loss to sing along with the response. They always started out by singing it once and then the congregation repeats it. And since it is the psalm from the lectionary, the text is right there in the missalette.

But as the Church allows it, my being bothered by it doesn’t factor in, I suppose.

 

[Neofight]

Or…

you could go directly to the music director and inquire with him/her.

As a music director myself, can’t tell you how many times my pastor has been approached unnecessarily if the person would just talk with me first they’d have a satisfactory conversation.

I use seasonal psalms-- not all the time. but for many MANY reasons, and as you can see in this thread, its perfectly fine.

That’s like saying because the pastor is the CFO for the parish, we should tell him if we are displeased with how the ushers performed in taking the offerings instead of going to the lead usher…please don’t take my comments so personally and be so defensive, I wasn’t attacking you.

Peace and blessings!

 

[agapewolf]

That’s like saying because the pastor is the CFO for the parish, we should tell him if we are displeased with how the ushers performed in taking the offerings instead of going to the lead usher…please don’t take my comments so personally and be so defensive, I wasn’t attacking you.

Peace and blessings!

Excuse me? Who are you addressing? I only made the above comment, in response to someone else’s comment and never said anything else.

 

[Joe_5859]

That’s like saying because the pastor is the CFO for the parish, we should tell him if we are displeased with how the ushers performed in taking the offerings instead of going to the lead usher…please don’t take my comments so personally and be so defensive, I wasn’t attacking you.

Peace and blessings!

Neofight, do you realize you responded to the same post twice? The first time, you agreed with it and the second time you accused the poster of being defensive.

 

[Joe_5859]

Excuse me? Who are you addressing? I only made the above comment, in response to someone else’s comment and never said anything else.

Now that I look through the thread again, I think Neofight probably meant to reply to 1ke’s post, not yours.

 

[Neofight]

Excuse me? Who are you addressing? I only made the above comment, in response to someone else’s comment and never said anything else.

You are excused, although I don’t know what I am excusing you for, except that you asked me too, because I was the one who erred, not you.

And, please excuse me (although, forgive is probably more appropriate for my blunder)…I mad a mistake…My post was in response to a response to a post from 1ke (see below)…in my haste, and on a small cell phone screen I brought up your post by mistake.

Your post was wonderful!

My bad.

Blessings and Peace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neofight View Post
Much better answer…running to the priest, pastor, or bishop first detracts from their ability to serve the flock in more pressing matters.

I wasn’t suggesting “running to the priest”. The priest is the head liturgist of his parish.

 

[Neofight]

Now that I look through the thread again, I think Neofight probably meant to reply to 1ke’s post, not yours.

Thanks, Joe…age and failing eyesight creeping up on me!

 

[SMHW]

I believe a really good choir can learn, sing, and present the psalm with the congregation following nicely…but it takes regular rehearsals and prioritization.

I agree. In general.

But at Christmas and Easter I think some choir directors and choirs just get overwhelmed. For better or for worse, sometimes the seasonal psalm can be the result.