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ribozyme
Guest
More than yours… reading things on www.epi.org and other think tanks, and reading about the Swedish and Danish labor markets.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
I think a good way to explain my response is to present it as though I was an alien coming to earth for the first time, and I landed in Sweden…
I would naturally assume that the “homeless” people are the elite ruling class, and that the rest of the country are their slaves.
Then I would leave, because I wouldn’t want to associate with a civilization that hasn’t developed beyond slavery.
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ribozyme
Guest
Why would you say that Sweden?
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wabrams
Guest
How is yours more than mine? What you read and what you apply and have done are 2 totally different things. What is your work experience, age? These things shape the discussion.
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thomfra
Guest
No. they are ways for old people to claim some sort of moral high ground.
Now, old man. Get back to the conversation at hand.
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wabrams
Guest
No, it is a very valid question. The reality is, Ribo has zero experience with the job market. He’s very young, a college student, and has no concept of how the world works except what he reads in books. When you get out and pay your own bills for a few years, I’m more than happy to entertain ideas coupled with research and practical experience.No. they are ways for old people to claim some sort of moral high ground.
Now, old man. Get back to the conversation at hand.
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cynic
Guest
This from a 29 year old who’s still a student…
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wabrams
Guest
I started my own lawn business at 17; worked from 18 to 22 in retail sales over 30 hours a week to support myself while I did my bachelors degree, taking a full time load at school every semester. At 22 I graduated and went into the finance business. At 28 i went back to school full time to go into healthcare and will graduate in May 2009, all the while working part time. So I think I know what I am talking about.
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cynic
Guest
Working part time as a sales assistant in a store while studying is not remarkable. What area of finance? Did you employ poeple, run a business? No?
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wabrams
Guest
It is remarkable when you have to work for living to support yourself while going to school full time. It makes one learn the value of money, budgeting, hard work, and hardships which can lead to fruitfuless. You don’t learn those by being an unemployed, full time college student.
I worked as a mortgage broker (loan officer), then a state sales manager for a broker/builder.
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wabrams
Guest
cynic,
fair is fair: what is yout background?
fair is fair: what is yout background?
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cynic
Guest
29, employed in a university ordering books for the libraries and doing related accounts work. Nothing to write home about I know. Also worked 25+ hours a week when studying from 21-24. It’s doable, and I bet your patents helped you out, or you at least took out a loan for the course costs.
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ribozyme
Guest
Let’s get back to the topic of talking about Sweden and Denmark instead of using ad hominems against each other. Let’s talk about my idea of putting people away in a nice place like the hikikomori in Japan or many of poor in Sweden if they are unable to make it in the world with hard work. (This is voluntary as the hikikomori in Japan realize that they would fail in the job market so they decided to live in their parent’s homes and not come out.)
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wabrams
Guest
Parents helped out a little, mainly paid my car insurance and some grocery money. Could have partied a little bit less and used the money to pay for those. I did take out loans to pay tuition and books, but I lived off campus my entire college career, hence why I worked so much.
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wabrams
Guest
It’s not an ad hominem attack. I don’t see any ligitimacy in the ideas of those of haven’t ever financially supported themselves.
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ribozyme
Guest
I see many working poor who have miserable lives by working multiple dead end jobs with little security, few benefits, and low wages. I do not see how teaching them resposibility will raise their wages so they could improve their quality of life. Encouraging them to be hikikomori will definitely improve their quality of life as their insecurity would be removed.
One proposal to limit the damage is to discourage them from having children. I think encouraging people to become like hikikomori would accomplish this. One does not require coercion such as sterilization for this to happen.
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wabrams
Guest
How would you know? Teaching them responsibility and job skills can raise their wages.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
OK, this is what happens when you don’t do your research. Hikikomori syndrome is not some voluntary life choice, it is a mental disorder. And it is most certainly not an appropriate model for your ridiculous “hide the homeless behind the shed” program.
Sure, some people have wrongly interpreted this condition as a developing sub-culture of individuals who have “opted out” of the socio-economic system in response to Japanese strict cultural norms and high-stress demands of the Japanese workforce. Some have even likened it to the emergence of the monastic tradition in Europe during the middle ages.
While it is true that there is a developing subculture that matches this description, those with Hikikomori syndrome are not part of it because they are not socially connected. The “subculture” group, as opposed to the “psychological disorder” group, does engage in social behaviors and organized activities- but usually in an isolated manner in the form of internet communication like gaming and IM- they just don’t want to work because it interferes with playing video games.
The Hikikomori, on the other hand, are suffering from a psychological condition which refers to the tendency of some individuals, for a period of at least 6 months, to become extremely reclusive, shun social contact with family or peers, refuse to participate in the work force, refuse to leave their homes, and other similar behaviors. These individuals typically become dependent upon their parents or other caretakers to provide their housing and basic needs. These individuals have been known to become violent toward others or themselves when faced with social pressures. Violent acts attributed to this condition have included premeditated acts such as kidnapping individuals or holding groups of people hostage, for the purpose of bargaining to keep the status quo, and garden variety random acts of violence.
This condition has been described as “clinical self-absorption.” It is believed to be distinct from the family of agoraphobic disorders, as those with Hikikomori Syndrome are content to leave their homes when it suits them. It may be related to clinical depression, anxiety based disorders, and some experts have even likened it to certain forms of mild autism. Anxiety disorder has been ruled out by some experts because those with this disorder aren’t anxious about social interaction- they are simply uninterested in any sort of social interaction, whether it is in person, through a computer, or anything else.
I should also mention that having a Hikikomori in the family has become a major source of shame and social ostracism in Japan. Parents don’t know what to do when their children manifest this disorder. Private intervention programs have cropped up all over the place which specialize in removing an Hikikomori from the home, and placing them in various types of “halfway homes” in the hope of rehabilitating them.
Last but not least, don’t try to claim that you were referring to the “subculture group,” because it doesn’t help your original premise. Unless, of course, your premise was that the rest of society should just roll over and hand out wads of free cash to everyone who would rather play video games than work to support themselves.
That being said, does anyone besides me appreciate the irony of an aspiring “think tank” employee mistaking a psychological disorder for a managerial welfare state intervention?
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Oscarthecat
Guest
Having experience is a lot like having common sense…No. they are ways for old people to claim some sort of moral high ground.
Now, old man. Get back to the conversation at hand.
If you don’t have it, you not going to understand why you need it.
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