Sweden's way of dealing with the poor

[lwestin]

Perhaps promotion of family and community, personal freedom, religious freedom, would improve the condition of Swedish society. In a country that has forced the population to rely on the state as the parent, while preventing families from growing and being together, everyone looks to the state instead of each other.

Are Swedes happy people? Poor people can be happy, if they have basic freedoms. Being poor is not the worst that can happen . Being de-humanized by the state is worse.

 

[thomfra]

Perhaps promotion of family and community, personal freedom, religious freedom, would improve the condition of Swedish society. In a country that has forced the population to rely on the state as the parent, while preventing families from growing and being together, everyone looks to the state instead of each other.

Are Swedes happy people? Poor people can be happy, if they have basic freedoms. Being poor is not the worst that can happen . Being de-humanized by the state is worse.

Take a look around at the women in Sweden. At the very least the men are happy…

 

[Opelske]

As a Swede maybe I could add some first hand information.
I define myself as Conservative and Nationalist, so this may show in my answer.

It´s nothing fundamentally wrong with the Swedish wellfare system. The real problem is that it´s outdated. It origins from the so called “folkhemmet”, the Swedish post WW2 political doctrine.

It´s aim is reasonable equality between social classes, full employment and a fair amount of material standard. The true origin of this model nobody really want´s to speak about, because the basic idea derives from 1930´s German social politics.

The base for getting this model to work is however a total commitment and honesty from the people. To get that you must have a peoples feeling of belonging. The best word for that I find in the German “Volksgemeinshaft”.

So what has happend since this time? Globalization and secularization. Masses of immigrants have come to Sweden with their culture and habits. They make claims of Swedes altering their ways of life.

Along with this came the cultural marxists from the Frankfurt school, who wanted, and to a great extent succeeded in, turning all traditional values upside down. The Swedish people were robbed of their traditions, heritage and spiritual belonging. The Swedish Church became even more secularized and ruled by secular political powers.

Taking our traditional way of lifes place came a perverted form of politically correct liberalism with an egoistic, mass consuming culture governed by a therapephtic state.

Where does this lead? It results in a egoistic, rootless and cheating people living in a system built on trust.

The few honest people that really needs the help and the hard working backbone are paying the prize with the wolds highest taxes and nothing but accusations of racism and discrimination as feedback.

So either we restore our traditional way of life or we adapt to this evil epoque of modernism.

I agree, but isn’t it strange that other countries suffered the same fate and have identical or strangely similar complaints. In the USA our programs began in the 1930’s too. The world is out of balance and upside down. Someone on this board made a horrible comment and called a poster an “old man.” While I hope that not all feel this way, I am saddened that this is the feeling of too many. Strong families, traditions, honor thy Mother and thy Father, reverence for motherhood, the elderly and elderly wisdom have gone out the window. Global drug and alcohol problems with people of all ages. All distinctions practically erased - child/ adult, man/women. As for immigration, when the majority is upset, it is more invasion than immigration. To be demonized in the media and politics for doing nothing but living a decent life as you were taught to for several generations is the worst crime of all. It destroys the heart of a community. How a tax paying, law abiding, decent person can become the enemy all in the name of equality doesn’t make any sense, unless it is by design. Nothing in nature is equal - think diversity. We should strive to make our family stronger and develop programs within our community to help others do the same. When we ourselves are strong then we can help others, but if the family and community are destroyed and the individual is weakened, we become helpless to ourselves and to others, and how on earth can anyone help anyone? For a welfare or any program or institution to work well, it needs a majority of decent and sincere people to work it. People do not become decent and sincere by force but by good family, tradition, strong and unalterable conviction and training.

 

[seekerz]

so the Swedes shelter the homless, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, etc etc

Startling!

 

[rpp]

I am coming to this party a bit late. Has anyone mentioned the tax rates in Sweden?

The corporate income tax is 28%. (Less than the USA.)

The **municipal **individual income tax varies from 29 - 35%.

The **national **individual income tax is an additional 20 - 25%

The VAT tax (sales tax) is 25% on most goods and services, 12% for food and 6% on sporting events admissions.

See here. (Note, this is a PDF file.)

And then there are property taxes, etc.

Finally, after all the taxes are paid, people are left with less than 30% of what they earn.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I do not think many are capable of earning high paying jobs (such as working at a hedge fund). Those people will always need the loving welfare state. One way is to provide government jobs with high salaries and nice benefits.

And I’m sure you want Mr. Hedge Fund Manager to cover the cost for you?!

 

[thomfra]

That was me! It was a joke (you know, ha ha things, you might remember them from your youth)…

Did it ever occur to you that I too could well be an old man???

 

[Oscarthecat]

That was me! It was a joke (you know, ha ha things, you might remember them from your youth)…

Did it ever occur to you that I too could well be an old man???

Speaking of ageism…one of my favorite quotes…

“Show me a young conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.”

…dubiously attributed to Winston Churchill…

 

[Oscarthecat]

I think that your statement contains far too much pessimism with regards to the good that society can do in further forming individuals to be… to reach their… dreams.

Simply deploring every instance of welfare makes no sense, not least of all, because welfare is not inherently evil.

I am pessimistic about what the government can do “in further forming individuals to be… to reach their… dreams.”

I am extremely optimistic about the good that individuals can do for one another.

 

[Engelbrecht]

I agree, but isn’t it strange that other countries suffered the same fate and have identical or strangely similar complaints.

Agreed. It´s just that Sweden has an almost perverse habit of trying to act as the worlds bad conscience. We always try to stand at the barriers and wave the ugly flag of “tolerence”. That´s why all the uglyness of modernism is amplified here.

Strong families, traditions, honor thy Mother and thy Father, reverence for motherhood, the elderly and elderly wisdom have gone out the window. Global drug and alcohol problems with people of all ages. All distinctions practically erased - child/ adult, man/women.

The Frankfurt School surely knew what they were doing…

As for immigration, when the majority is upset, it is more invasion than immigration. To be demonized in the media and politics for doing nothing but living a decent life as you were taught to for several generations is the worst crime of all. It destroys the heart of a community.

At least you Americans don´t have Mosques all over the place. Here in Sweden the government even proposes introducing an official imam education at the universities. It shall be interesting to see how the tolorent liberals will succeed in making this imam education from a feminist perspective!

How a tax paying, law abiding, decent person can become the enemy all in the name of equality doesn’t make any sense, unless it is by design.

It´s design for sure. The design of Marcuse, Adorno & Co.

Nothing in nature is equal - think diversity. We should strive to make our family stronger and develop programs within our community to help others do the same. When we ourselves are strong then we can help others, but if the family and community are destroyed and the individual is weakened, we become helpless to ourselves and to others, and how on earth can anyone help anyone? For a welfare or any program or institution to work well, it needs a majority of decent and sincere people to work it. People do not become decent and sincere by force but by good family, tradition, strong and unalterable conviction and training.

An independent community of strong families harbouring decent and sincere people are their worst nightmare! We have a big job ahead at reprogramming our children after > 10 years at the indoctrination camp(school). :sad_yes:

 

[ribozyme]

Since you are from Sweden, could you tell me what is “AMS-åtgärder.”

 

[Engelbrecht]

Since you are from Sweden, could you tell me what is “AMS-åtgärder.”

Sure. AMS stands for Arbets Marknads Styrelsen.
In English that would translate to Labour Market Board.

Åtgärd = measure or action.

In this case it means measures or actions taken by the Labour Market Board to get unemployed citizens back into labour. It could be in the form of the Labour Market Board financing parts of or the entire cost for the employment. It could also be in the form of state financed educations.

I don´t know more in detail since I´m not really interested in politics at that more pragmatic level.

I hope however that I gave an answer to your question.

 

[jfallaw]

“The poor you will always have with you…” -Jesus, Matt 26:11

In America especially, people who have never experienced poverty often complain that the poor are just ‘lazy’ and don’t want to better themselves. Yah, why don’t they just go to college and get an education. Oh, maybe because college is so unaffordable? They’re already poor, remember? The rich and the corporations complain about the poor, but at the same time rely on them for their cheap labor. Here in the Southwest, illegal aliens work for much less than minimum wage, taking jobs from Americans who want to work, but not for $3 an hour, which they couldn’t live on anyway. But many construction and landscaping companies I’ve worked for actually go out of their way to hire illegals so they can make more profit. It has been my experience that most people who complain about the poor, or welfare, or whatever, do so because they are greedy and don’t want their money going to help those who cannot help themselves. I for one, though I am pretty much poor myself (I work with computers, yet I only make $9 an hour because it’s either that or watch my job go to India) would not mind paying a few extra dollars a year in taxes if it meant my neighbors could live in dignity with a roof over their heads and food in their bellies. But many people seem to want their heaven on earth and not to follow Christ’s command to help others. I have worked for a living all my life and am currently working my way through college, yet I still can hardly afford to pay the bills. And guess what? I don’t care. I still give money to the Church, and I still gladly pay taxes, and I still support better social programs for the poor, for the simple fact that I’m a CHRISTIAN and know that this life means nothing; that I have a better life to look forward to, and that when Jesus asks me, “Did you feed me? Did you clothe me? Did you visit me when I was sick or in prison?” I can honestly say, “Yes, LORD!”

 

[thomfra]

In America especially, people who have never experienced poverty often complain that the poor are just ‘lazy’ and don’t want to better themselves.

Worse still are those who believe they “overcame tremendous odds” to get where they are, and don’t hesitate to tell the world.

Those are usually the most uncharitiable, mean spirited people. Deep down inside they usually think that the poor & unfortunate have somehow have deserved what they get.

This is why even if they do give or work for charity, there seems to be no joy associated with it. What they lack is EMPATHY.

 

[lwestin]

Worse still are those who believe they “overcame tremendous odds” to get where they are, and don’t hesitate to tell the world.

Those are usually the most uncharitiable, mean spirited people. Deep down inside they usually think that the poor & unfortunate have somehow have deserved what they get.

This is why even if they do give or work for charity, there seems to be no joy associated with it. What they lack is EMPATHY.

You are basing this theory on what?
Statistics have shown in the US, that those who most believe in a welfare state, are those who are the LEAST generous, and those who believe in their community and church, work hard themselves and are more generous to those who are needy.

Letting the gov’t tax you exhorbitently so that you have an excuse (can’t afford it) (gov’t is taking care of that) for not being involved, is not being charitable. Its being self-centered. When someone has some money in their pocket, or something to spare, and they know that the poor depend on them - they are more inclined to give. Especially when the gov’t has not sought to replace dependence on God and neighbour with dependence on the government.

An example of the deterioration of a society , and dependence on gov’t, and loss of the will to be a community, would be Quebec.

Good video- protest song from french group Mes Aieux
youtube.com/watch?v=cKCRHhmHvjg

 

[jfallaw]

You are basing this theory on what?
Statistics have shown in the US, that those who most believe in a welfare state, are those who are the LEAST generous, and those who believe in their community and church, work hard themselves and are more generous to those who are needy.

Letting the gov’t tax you exhorbitently so that you have an excuse (can’t afford it) (gov’t is taking care of that) for not being involved, is not being charitable. Its being self-centered. When someone has some money in their pocket, or something to spare, and they know that the poor depend on them - they are more inclined to give. Especially when the gov’t has not sought to replace dependence on God and neighbour with dependence on the government.

An example of the deterioration of a society , and dependence on gov’t, and loss of the will to be a community, would be Quebec.

Good video- protest song from french group Mes Aieux
youtube.com/watch?v=cKCRHhmHvjg

Define exhorbitently? I make about 20,000 per year and my taxes come to about $500. No sweat off my back. My dad made about $60,000 and paid about $1,500-2,000 in taxes. Chump change. Of course the people who complain the most are those who make the most, because they (fairly) pay more. But, statistics have also shown, that the richest in America often pay NO, ZERO, NADA in taxes, because they are able to exploit every loophole in the tax code. So in reality, I pay more taxes than, say Exxon-Mobile, who btw get millions of dollars of our tax money every year in a little thing called Corporate Welfare (cunningly called ‘economic stimulus’). So who really has the right to complain?

 

[estesbob]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Actually its “teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer”

 

[estesbob]

Sure. AMS stands for Arbets Marknads Styrelsen.
In English that would translate to Labour Market Board.

Åtgärd = measure or action.

In this case it means measures or actions taken by the Labour Market Board to get unemployed citizens back into labour. It could be in the form of the Labour Market Board financing parts of or the entire cost for the employment. It could also be in the form of state financed educations.

I don´t know more in detail since I´m not really interested in politics at that more pragmatic level.

I hope however that I gave an answer to your question.

I think you passed his test. I supect he didnt think you were Swedish. He always posts what a Utopia Sweden is and I supect it burst his bubble to see a Swede say it aint necessarily so.

 

[ribozyme]

I think you passed his test. I supect he didnt think you were Swedish. He always posts what a Utopia Sweden is and I supect it burst his bubble to see a Swede say it aint necessarily so.

I know a few Swedes who would say that about Sweden. Stefan Karlsson lives in Sweden and he does not like their welfare state or high taxes.

 

[lwestin]

Define exhorbitently? I make about 20,000 per year and my taxes come to about $500. No sweat off my back. My dad made about $60,000 and paid about $1,500-2,000 in taxes. Chump change. Of course the people who complain the most are those who make the most, because they (fairly) pay more. But, statistics have also shown, that the richest in America often pay NO, ZERO, NADA in taxes, because they are able to exploit every loophole in the tax code. So in reality, I pay more taxes than, say Exxon-Mobile, who btw get millions of dollars of our tax money every year in a little thing called Corporate Welfare (cunningly called ‘economic stimulus’). So who really has the right to complain?

Uh, I would describe Sweden’s taxes as exhorbitent.

Also, People who make more expect to pay more. They don’t expect to pay a much higher RATE of taxes. They complain when that happens.
When you are paying the gov’t to do what you should be doing out of Christian love, who are you?