Switching rites

[CollegeKid]

hypothetical situation: an eastern rite Catholic who wants to become a Latin rite Catholic. Is that possible? Can Latin rite Catholics switch to an eastern rite? I only ask because my curiosity was sparked when Father Serpa told someone that because their father is a byzantine rite Catholic, they are too even though they were baptized, raised, and confirmed in the Latin rite.

 

[EquusNomVeritas]

As far as I know, it is not usually possible to switch rites. You are a member of whichever rite in which you have been baptized, which in general is whichever rite your parents are a member of. There is a brief discussion of this in the book “Why Do Catholics Do That?” by Kevin Orlin Johnson. The specific chapter is “The Rite Stuff” (I think that’s the name of the chpater, sorry, I left the book back in Oregon). I think that it is possible in veryy special circumstances, but I believe you need papal permission to do so (this is also discussed in hat book).

 

[Roman_Army]

CollegeKid:

hypothetical situation: an eastern rite Catholic who wants to become a Latin rite Catholic. Is that possible? Can Latin rite Catholics switch to an eastern rite? I only ask because my curiosity was sparked when Father Serpa told someone that because their father is a byzantine rite Catholic, they are too even though they were baptized, raised, and confirmed in the Latin rite.

I don’t see a point why anyone would want to change rites, unless they want to be married priests. Still, I don’t think someone from the Latin rite that transfers could be married in the priesthood, they would probably have to cary the rule of celibacy on with them. The only way to transfer is to get permission from your Bishop. However, you can be in the Latin Rite and belong to an Eastern Catholic parish and recieve the sacraments from the Eastern rite. Unless it’s to be a married priest or for a higher population count for the Eastern Church, I don’t see any other purpose of transfering. If their parents are Eastern Rite that’s another story, in that case they are under Eastern rite jurisdiction.

 

[CollegeKid]

I agree that in most cases there probably wouldn’t be much reason to transfer, and I actually wasn’t referring to those seeking ordination to the priesthood or the ability to marry as a priest, rather to members of the laity. The situation I was thinking of, to give more detail, would involve someone whose parents are eastern rite and wanted to switch to the Latin rite, maybe for a reason as simple as that the neighborhood/country/state or whatever that they live in is predominantly Roman Catholic and they want to fit in better with their friends. Yes, they could go to Mass at a Roman Catholic parish, but that might not be enough for them and they might want to be fully integrated into the Latin rite.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

CollegeKid:

hypothetical situation: an eastern rite Catholic who wants to become a Latin rite Catholic. Is that possible? Can Latin rite Catholics switch to an eastern rite? I only ask because my curiosity was sparked when Father Serpa told someone that because their father is a byzantine rite Catholic, they are too even though they were baptized, raised, and confirmed in the Latin rite.

Yes one can change ritual Churches. There seems to be a misconception here by you and the two respondants so far.

One belongs to a Church not a rite. A Church belongs to a certain rite.

EquusNomVeritas:

As far as I know, it is not usually possible to switch rites. You are a member of whichever rite in which you have been baptized, which in general is whichever rite your parents are a member of.

Actually it is not baptism that determines Church membership. I was baptized in a Latin Catholic Church, but as my father is a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic, so am I. Church membership comes from ones father. That is as long as you are baptized before the age of reason. If you are baptized after the age of reason then you are a member of your Father’s Church unless you are baptized in a different Church and make the decision at that time to be a member of it.

I don’t see a point why anyone would want to change rites, unless they want to be married priests. Still, I don’t think someone from the Latin rite that transfers could be married in the priesthood, they would probably have to cary the rule of celibacy on with them.

Actually changing Churches for the sole reason of being ordained a priest as a married man would most likely be denied.

To change Churches you have to write a letter to your current bishop explaining why you want to change and asking him to allow you to change then you must write the bishop of the Church asking him to accept you. If either says no then no change.

The main, and only reason I can think of, to change is that one has a love of the spirituality of the Church (rite) one wishes to change to. The Byzantine spiritual traditions/theology are very different from the Western Church’s.

I hope that helps.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

CollegeKid:

I agree that in most cases there probably wouldn’t be much reason to transfer, and I actually wasn’t referring to those seeking ordination to the priesthood or the ability to marry as a priest, rather to members of the laity.

Just so you know, priests can not marry.

When we talk of the married priesthood what we really are talking about is the ordination of married men to the priesthood not that priests can get married.

 

[Roman_Army]

CollegeKid:

I agree that in most cases there probably wouldn’t be much reason to transfer, and I actually wasn’t referring to those seeking ordination to the priesthood or the ability to marry as a priest, rather to members of the laity. The situation I was thinking of, to give more detail, would involve someone whose parents are eastern rite and wanted to switch to the Latin rite, maybe for a reason as simple as that the neighborhood/country/state or whatever that they live in is predominantly Roman Catholic and they want to fit in better with their friends. Yes, they could go to Mass at a Roman Catholic parish, but that might not be enough for them and they might want to be fully integrated into the Latin rite.

**I don’t see a point in that either. It’s not like you’re a different species or something, lol. It’s not like you’re walking around with a symbol on your forehead saying “Coptic Catholic,” lol. No one will know what you are unless they look into the records. Still, it wouldn’t affect your ability to recieve the sacraments in the Latin rite. You can belong to a Roman Catholic parish and even be a traditionalist and learn Latin and be even more Latin than the Pope while still having in the record “Coptic Catholic.” **

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

**I don’t see a point in that either. It’s not like you’re a different species or something, lol. It’s not like you’re walking around with a symbol on your forehead saying “Coptic Catholic,” lol. No one will know what you are unless they look into the records. Still, it wouldn’t affect your ability to recieve the sacraments in the Latin rite. You can belong to a Roman Catholic parish and even be a traditionalist and learn Latin and be even more Latin than the Pope while still having in the record “Coptic Catholic.” **

A couple more reasons in addition to the one I posted above.

If your a man and you have a child then offically they would be (using your example) a Coptic Catholic and to be correct you would have to have the Mysteries (Sacraments for you Latins) of Initiation administered in your Church, that would be Coptic, instead of the Latin (even though that is what you like).

You are still bound under your Churches Holy Days and other restrictions according to your Church law and traditions.

For example, the Byzantine Churches do not have all the same Holy Days as the Latin Catholic Church and our Holy Days are never moved to a Sunday. Also Great Lent starts the Sunday evening before the Latin Church’s Ash Wednesday with that whole week being meatless. Also during Great Lent Wednesdays are meatless, not just Fridays.

Another reason is like what a friend of mine is going though now. He is a Latin Catholic who attends, and is registered in, the Melkite parish I attend. He holds the Latin Holy Days as well as our Byzantine ones but that is sort of hard on him but the issue for him is that he wishes to be a deacon, so he much switch Churches, now as the deacon can be married in both the Latin and Byzantine Churches, he will not be faulted for wanting to change Churches to be ordained a married deacon as he would if he had wanted to be a married priest.

 

[EquusNomVeritas]

ByzCath:

Actually it is not baptism that determines Church membership. I was baptized in a Latin Catholic Church, but as my father is a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic, so am I. Church membership comes from ones father. That is as long as you are baptized before the age of reason. If you are baptized after the age of reason then you are a member of your Father’s Church unless you are baptized in a different Church and make the decision at that time to be a member of it.

Right. I should have said "member of whichever rite INTO which " not “member of whichever rite IN which.” But you said pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks.

 

[Roman_Army]

ByzCath:

A couple more reasons in addition to the one I posted above.

If your a man and you have a child then offically they would be (using your example) a Coptic Catholic and to be correct you would have to have the Mysteries (Sacraments for you Latins) of Initiation administered in your Church, that would be Coptic, instead of the Latin (even though that is what you like).

You are still bound under your Churches Holy Days and other restrictions according to your Church law and traditions.

For example, the Byzantine Churches do not have all the same Holy Days as the Latin Catholic Church and our Holy Days are never moved to a Sunday. Also Great Lent starts the Sunday evening before the Latin Church’s Ash Wednesday with that whole week being meatless. Also during Great Lent Wednesdays are meatless, not just Fridays.

Another reason is like what a friend of mine is going though now. He is a Latin Catholic who attends, and is registered in, the Melkite parish I attend. He holds the Latin Holy Days as well as our Byzantine ones but that is sort of hard on him but the issue for him is that he wishes to be a deacon, so he much switch Churches, now as the deacon can be married in both the Latin and Byzantine Churches, he will not be faulted for wanting to change Churches to be ordained a married deacon as he would if he had wanted to be a married priest.

Well, you seem knowlegdeable in this field. Here’s another interesting question: Could your Deacon friend serve as Deacon for both Latin and Melkite? If so, in that case he would have to know how to do both styles of worship, right? Also, could a priest do mass for multiple rites?

 

[Roman_Army]

**You know I just thought of something, I’m considered a Latin and I don’t even know Latin. :whacky: **

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well, you seem knowlegdeable in this field. Here’s another interesting question: Could your Deacon friend serve as Deacon for both Latin and Melkite? If so, in that case he would have to know how to do both styles of worship, right? Also, could a priest do mass for multiple rites?

Yes, they are known as bi-ritual deacons and bi-ritual priests.

Father Deacon Ed, who is a member here at this forum, is a bi-ritual deacon. He is a Latin Catholic who became a deacon and now also serves in a Melkite Catholic parish.

I have a friend who is a priest in the Carmelites, a Latin Catholic religious order, who has recieved bi-ritual facilties from Bishop John of the Eparchy of Toronto (Slovaks).

Usually what takes place is a priest or deacon is either asked by a bishop (or one of his priests) or they approach the bishop and ask for bi-ritual facilities. The bishop then requries them to learn what they need to do.

My priest friend spent a couple of months at the Byzantine Seminary in Pittsburgh, PA, to learn what he needed to know past the Divine Liturgy which he learned from other priests.

 

[Liberian]

CollegeKid:

hypothetical situation: an eastern rite Catholic who wants to become a Latin rite Catholic. Is that possible? Can Latin rite Catholics switch to an eastern rite? I only ask because my curiosity was sparked when Father Serpa told someone that because their father is a byzantine rite Catholic, they are too even though they were baptized, raised, and confirmed in the Latin rite.

Folks,

For what it’s worth, several years ago I worked with a lady who was born and raised Latin Rite Catholic. She married a Ukrainian Rite Catholic and told me that she had automatically been changed to Ukrainian Rite Catholic. Their kids were Ukrainian Rite as well. It does not work in the other direction; according to her, the Pope decreed that to boost the numbers of non-Latin Rite Catholics the Latin Rite partner in a marriage like this would be automatically changed to the non-Latin Rite church (or whatever the technical term is.)

• Liberian

 

[Roman_Army]

ByzCath:

Yes, they are known as bi-ritual deacons and bi-ritual priests.

Father Deacon Ed, who is a member here at this forum, is a bi-ritual deacon. He is a Latin Catholic who became a deacon and now also serves in a Melkite Catholic parish.

I have a friend who is a priest in the Carmelites, a Latin Catholic religious order, who has recieved bi-ritual facilties from Bishop John of the Eparchy of Toronto (Slovaks).

Usually what takes place is a priest or deacon is either asked by a bishop (or one of his priests) or they approach the bishop and ask for bi-ritual facilities. The bishop then requries them to learn what they need to do.

My priest friend spent a couple of months at the Byzantine Seminary in Pittsburgh, PA, to learn what he needed to know past the Divine Liturgy which he learned from other priests.

Thanks. God bless all Byzantines.

 

[CollegeKid]

you know what, I should’ve just stated my real question outright but I thought it would sound stupid, so here it is:

I was confirmed Roman Catholic this past Easter but my father is a (nominal) Lutheran. If he were ever to be confirmed into an eastern rite of the Catholic Church (which I doubt will ever happen), would I then become a member of the rite he had joined, and cease to be a Latin rite Catholic? I’m just curious. Thanks.

 

[Roman_Army]

CollegeKid:

you know what, I should’ve just stated my real question outright but I thought it would sound stupid, so here it is:

I was confirmed Roman Catholic this past Easter but my father is a (nominal) Lutheran. If he were ever to be confirmed into an eastern rite of the Catholic Church (which I doubt will ever happen), would I then become a member of the rite he had joined, and cease to be a Latin rite Catholic? I’m just curious. Thanks.

**Welcome to the Faith! **

 

[SleepyGuy]

I know that this is a big what if question, but what if a person was baptized under the age of reason. But what whatever reason, they had to get a conditional baptism when they were passed the age of reason. Would that person still be bound to his/her father’s rite?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

CollegeKid:

you know what, I should’ve just stated my real question outright but I thought it would sound stupid, so here it is:

I was confirmed Roman Catholic this past Easter but my father is a (nominal) Lutheran. If he were ever to be confirmed into an eastern rite of the Catholic Church (which I doubt will ever happen), would I then become a member of the rite he had joined, and cease to be a Latin rite Catholic? I’m just curious. Thanks.

No, as you entered the Church as an adult you would stay where you are unless you chose to change.

 

[Roman_Army]

SleepyGuy:

I know that this is a big what if question, but what if a person was baptized under the age of reason. But what whatever reason, they had to get a conditional baptism when they were passed the age of reason. Would that person still be bound to his/her father’s rite?

** If they were initiated in the age of reason, they aren’t bound to their parents’ rite, unless they choose to. If they are initiated prior to the age of reason, they are bound to their parents’ rite.**

 

[Roman_Army]

Here’s another interesting question (lol the questions keep comming): Do protestant converts have to be initiated into the Latin Rite first? (Since, their movement broke off the Roman Church.) What about an Orthodox convert?