Syllabus of Errors. Catholicism is Totalitarian

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The SoE is just that … a syllabus. A list. Each error is discussed in detail in some other document. In the Syllabus they are listed stripped of explanations and limits. You cannot understand the Syllabus unless you study the underlying documents. Also, many of the terms used are technical and the meanings of the words and phrases have changed - they didn’t necessarily say then what you think they say today.

Go do your home work.
Documents written at the time that the Syllabus was written? I’ve seen some explanations that try to reconcile it with Vatican II and today’s societies, but none around the dates the Syllabus was made.
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petergee:
Sure there are plenty of nominal “Catholics” who subscribe more or less to the politically-correct contradictory nonsense that “every religion is as good and as true as every other religion”. It seems you think “totalitarian” means “thinking that your own beliefs are true and that therefore naturally any contrary beliefs are false”.
I base my claim that Catholicism is totalitarian not just because it believes its claims are true and all others are false, but it wants to take control of government and make Catholicism the sole religion of the State, disallow freedom of religion, take control of education and all laws of the States of the world, and has no moral problem using force for its ambitions.
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petergee:
Then it’s a sad reflection on Catholic schools that you still have such inverted ideas about history and about what the Catholic Church teaches.
No the school was great, I think the sad reflection is on the religion.

Leif Erikson:
Justification of Genesis is nothing more than a weak cherry-picking ploy to try and find figurative truth in a completely outdated story. Because it might have said some things that vaguely resemble what we know to be true today lends no credibility to the story simply because it got things right by chance. Some specific points: no one is saying that the sky and the sea were once one super-ocean, really have no idea where you got that. When God was said to separate the waters, it was meant to explain rain. The Jewish people believed the sky was a barrier, and that there was a great body of water floating on top of the sky which let water pour through as rain every once in a while. The story claims that the Birds and the sea creatures were created at the same time before land animals and plants.

There is no even remotely impressive similarity between Genesis and the Truth, and to suggest that science will “catch up” is laughable.

The “infinite wisdom” that was displayed by God in the Old Testament to me shows that the religion was simply invented by a tribal, primitive society.
 
As for slavery:
Exodus 21:1-4: “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he
came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself.”

Deuteronomy 15:12-18: “And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.”

Exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."Leviticus 25:44-46: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.” (NIV)

Leviticus 25:48-53: “After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle’s son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.”

Exodus 21:8: “If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.”

Leviticus 19:20-22: “And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.”

As for rape, this states that there shall be no punishment for masters who rape their slaves, but instead the slaves shall be whipped. The master would simply have to offer a sacrifice and he would be forgiven.

I see no basis for an “infinitely wise” God justifying slavery for economic reasons.
 
New Testament: Jesus says:
Luke 12:45-48: “The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

Paul says:
Ephesians 6:5-9: “Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.”

More:
Colossians 4:1: “Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.”

1 Timothy 6:1-3 “Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;”
 
Documents written at the time that the Syllabus was written? I’ve seen some explanations that try to reconcile it with Vatican II and today’s societies, but none around the dates the Syllabus was made.
Oh dear. As quasimodo said, do your homework. Then come back and discuss what the Syllabus actually says, rather than trying to impose your perverse interpretation of it onto everybody else.
I base my claim that Catholicism is totalitarian not **just **because it believes its claims are true and all others are false,
Are you asserting that you do not make such a claim? :eek:
but it wants to take control of government and make Catholicism the sole religion of the State,
Just like every non-Catholic political activist wants to make the government act according to his own views.
disallow freedom of religion,
You mean freedom from religion.
take control of education
What a joke. The Church invented mass education and totally funded and controlled it for centuries before somebody in the 19th century came up with the idea that a State could set up its own schools. Let alone the noxious idea invented by 20th century atheist dictators that the State should **take control **of education.
and all laws of the States of the world, and has no moral problem using force for its ambitions.
Non-Catholic rulers have no problem making whatever laws fit in with their beliefs and using force to enforce them. Why should there be a different rule for Catholics, just because you happen to dislike us?
No the school was great, I think the sad reflection is on the religion.
You have amply demonstrated you know less than nothing about what the Church teaches (that is, you even assert that it teaches some things it doesn’t, and some of which are the direct opposite of what it actually teaches) and about history. Whilst the school might not have taught you these false notions, it apparently failed in its duty to effectively disabuse you of them.
Leif Erikson:
Justification of Genesis is nothing more than a weak cherry-picking ploy to try and find figurative truth in a completely outdated story.
“Outdated”? IMO it’s you and your regurgigation of a feeble attempt by late-19th century atheists to try to set up a conflict between science and Christianity which is sadly outdated. People centuries hence will be avidly studying Genesis when this 19th century theory has been relegated to a forgotten footnote in a history book.
Because it might have said some things that vaguely resemble what we know to be true today lends no credibility to the story simply because it got things right by chance.
Ah yes, chance, blind chance - the atheist’s catch-all explanation of everything.
Some specific points: no one is saying that the sky and the sea were once one super-ocean, really have no idea where you got that. When God was said to separate the waters, it was meant to explain rain.
And that’s exactly what palaeogeographers believe happened: all of the water was once in an immensely dense and deep cloud blanketing the earth, then it began to rain, for centuries, until most of the water was in in one vast super-ocean surrounding the single continet of Pangaea. It was fresh rain water, it became gradually salty over aeons as minerals from the underlying rocks gradually dissolved in it.
There is no even remotely impressive similarity between Genesis and the Truth, and to suggest that science will “catch up” is laughable.
The “infinite wisdom” that was displayed by God in the Old Testament to me shows that the religion was simply invented by a tribal, primitive society.
How nice that you are so much more evolved and intelligent than these primitives and the stories they “invented”.:rolleyes:
 
As for slavery:
Exodus 21:1-4: “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he
came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself.”
This contradicts nothing I said.
Deuteronomy 15:12-18: “And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.”
This is a very kindly decree regarding the treatment of Hebrew slaves. It puts a definite endpoint on their slavery and it also ensures that their economic future, post-slavery, is provided for. Neighboring nations were far harsher with their slaves.
Exodus 21:7: “And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.”
I don’t know what this means. I don’t think that this is an exception to Jubilee- the Jubilee passages referred to freedom for everyone on the 7th year. This passage is given in the context of marriage (verses 9-10). It may be referring to her not having the same freedom as men to marry. Maybe. I don’t know- this verse seems a bit vague. Maybe it is talking about women not being freed on Jubilee, on the grounds that they are not generally capable of the same quality of manual labor as men, because physically they aren’t built for it.
Leviticus 25:44-46: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.” (NIV)
The paragraph immediately preceeding this one included several things you didn’t mention, such as the command not to treat Israeli slaves “ruthlessly,” and a direct connection between the economics of the day and self-chosen slavery.

The paragraph you quoted does not say whether the slaves bought from other nations are people from those nations who sell themselves, or whether those slaves are people that other nation owned and sold against their will.

I haven’t done a thorough search for verses relating to non-Israeli slaves, but Exodus 21:26-27 says that slaves are to be freed in cases of brutal treatment, and it doesn’t say this only applies to Israelites. Also, enslaving people through kidnap is condemned (Exodus 21:16).
Leviticus 25:48-53: “After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle’s son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.”
These are commands that make slavery more merciful and that offer ways out.
Exodus 21:8: “If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.”
Right. Her “duty of marriage” is translated in the NIV as “marriage rights.” This is a passage protecting slaves from abuse.
 
Leviticus 19:20-22: “And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.”
I think that this is a misquotation. My NIV makes no mention in these verses of scourging the raped women . . . which translation are you using? I thought you said earlier that you were using the NIV?

By any chance, are you using the King James Version? The King James Version has a lot more errors than the others.

Checks it out.

Yeah, you’re using the King James Version there. Neither the Revised Standard Version nor the NIV include any mention of scourging the raped woman.
The master would simply have to offer a sacrifice and he would be forgiven.
Perhaps. On the other hand, it says, “there must be due punishment.” It doesn’t say that the sacrifice and receiving of forgiveness is the punishment. It could be that these follow punishment. Though perhaps the cost of a ram and being publicly shamed was supposed to be the punishment. I doubt it, though. I expect that forgiveness came after punishment.
I see no basis for an “infinitely wise” God justifying slavery for economic reasons.
Leviticus 25:39-43 explains that Hebrew slaves sold themselves. It was a way of paying debts. And, unlike our credit card nastiness, where we nowadays can get snaggled into paying endlessly the interest of one’s debt, slaves in Israel had to serve a limited amount of time and then were freed by law, with goods given them by their master to give them an economic start.

The passages you quoted from the New Testament all look very valid and sound to me. Could you tell me what about them needs explaining?

I’ll just respond to the one you quoted from Luke, though. It is taken 100% out of context. Jesus was talking about how God would punish people who abused menservants and maidservants, and he was talking about how he would treat sinners at the Last Judgment.
 
Hubriss, I suggest you start your homework here:
newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/gladstone/section7.html

John Henry (later Cardinal) Newman was the leading English-speaking theologian of the time. Note he mentions as has quasimodo *"after each Error a reference is given to the Allocution, Encyclical, or other document in which it is proscribed.” *You need to refer to these documents to know what the Syllabus is referring to. The Syllabus is a shorthand checklist sent to the bishops as a quick-reference guide to which errors Pius IX had condemned in which of various documents he had issued. It was certainly not meant to be read in isolation.
 
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