Symbolic bread and wine in Catholic Men's Prayer Group

[SofSP]

I see where you are coming from… I guess.

For those unfamiliar with oplatki, it is the same bread as communion wafers, baked into larger rectangles and usually imprinted with nativity scenes. My understanding is that the head of a Polish household will break off a piece and pass it around the table right before the Christmas Eve meal. He may bless the family, each may forgive another, and they will offer prayers. That is my understanding. There is even pink oplatki for pets.

catholiccompany.com/content/oplatki-christmas-tradition.cfm

The pastor of my parish is Polish and supplies oplatki wafers - thousands of them - to the parishoners every Christmas. I have several and often break off a piece and give it to my non-Catholic and Catholic friends when they visit, especially for dinner, as we say grace before the meal. Many are fascinated that it is the same bread as used in Catholic communion and I am very careful to briefly explain the difference between the Eucharist and the mere bread of the oplatki.

I also have to say that my girlfriend - not Catholic - brings oplatki with her to Mass and has her own little “Lord’s Supper” in the pew while I go up for communion. She absolutely knows the difference and is discreet so as not to cause scandal (or cause an overzealous usher to demand it back).

But I’m not sure that this cultural/regional use of oplatki in the family setting translates to use of bread and wine as a “symbolic gesture of unity” in a mainstream US Catholic parish setting. There is just too much risk of misunderstanding.

I get what you are saying, ProVobis, and I do respect your opinion here and see where you are coming from. I’m just surprised, that’s all.

-Tim-

To me, it seems that the biggest risk of misunderstanding occurs when your girlfriend partakes of oplatki at Mass. Certainly, if anyone saw her, they may misunderstand. Besides, isn’t there a risk of your girlfriend essentially taking the position of “it’s good enough. Why do I need the real thing?” My guess (for the latter question) is that the answer is no. I trust that you understand your girlfriend’s knowledge better than any of us, so you know better than us whether there is a risk of misunderstanding. So, too, the OP knows better than us the understanding and knowledge of those involved in the group.

So, if it is explained to these men that this is purely symbolic, not the Eucharist of the Mass, is there really any more likelihood for confusion that the two situations you described above (you handing out oplatki and your girlfriend consuming oplatki at Mass).

Many of us are taking the principles discussed (risk of misunderstanding) and applying them to a situation we could begin to understand (they dynamics, knowledge, spiritual position in life, etc.). I think it best to give the principle, and leave it to the OP/that group to decide if there is that risk.

 

[ProVobis]

To me, it seems that the biggest risk of misunderstanding occurs when your girlfriend partakes of oplatki at Mass.

I agree. Inside of a Mass that would indeed be a problem.

At the same time, though, I don’t wish to suggest that distribution of Holy Communion be eliminated outside of the Mass either, such as bringing it to a sick patient, Good Friday, etc.

 

[DJgang]

And everyone should wear paisley print clothing and birkenstock sandals.

This sort of thing was very common for teenage and young adult retreats I attended back in the 1970’s. (Although usually with grape juice rather than wine.) To their credit, the retreat leaders were always careful to make the distinction between this “Agape Feast” and the Eucharist.

I think such events are a bit worrisome for those who are not well catechized or who have weak faith in the Real Presence. They overemphasize the experiential at the cost of Faith.

The whole thing strikes me as childish. (And I don’t mean child-like.)

We did an Agape Meal at the episcopal church I attended before becoming catholic.

The meal was of breads, wines, raw veggies and fruits, etc. we had this meal on Thursday of Holy Week right before the foot washing service. We gathered at small tables, served one another, couldn’t take food for ourselves and our priest announced topics for us to discuss.

I can honestly say this was a wonderful experience, never was the bread and wine even suggested to be “holy communion”.

I share this for the OP, maybe he can get an idea for his group. I can understand warnings going off from the original suggestion, but maybe you can expand on the original thought and make this meal more…

 

[atassina]

This is the OP-
We live in an age where it is reported that too many Catholics only see the Holy Eucharist as symbolic. Even one adult receiving the Sacred Body and Blood during the Liturgy as a symbol it too many.

Read below for a concrete example regarding my concern for symbolism:

I teach an adult sacraments class for Confirmation only. All adults are baptized Christians older than 18. Their catechesis is poor.

Many of them do not know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. I now require them to memorize the Sign of the Cross, the Hail Mary, the Our Father, the Ten Commandments and the Apostle’s Creed. Why? To my shame and horror I discovered at the end of the class one year that they did not know the Our Father!

Therefore, my concern regarding symbolic bread and wine services.

 

[ProVobis]

This is the OP-
We live in an age where it is reported that too many Catholics only see the Holy Eucharist as symbolic. Even one adult receiving the Sacred Body and Blood during the Liturgy as a symbol it too many.

Yes, but in your OP you make no mention of consecrated bread/wine among this group.

When dealing with consumption of unconsecrated bread/wine it can be symbolic AT BEST.

Your point about the poor catechesis, however, is well-taken.

 

[atassina]

ProVobis, thanks for your observation. It looks like I will need to speak with the other core leaders about this subject. They suggested it and I raised my concern. Once we clear up any possible confusion, then it simply becomes a matter for us to decide as a team-- regardless of any concern that I have. We decide as a group and act as a group. Thanks.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

In our parish Catholic Men’s prayer group, one of the men brought up the idea of sharing a loaf of bread and one cup of wine as a symbolic gesture of our unity as men in prayer and solidarity with each other. I thought,

“Warning Will Robinson! Warning”
“Danger alert!”

We already have enough problems with a certain percentage of Catholics believing that the Eucharist is only symbolic. They have not yet come to the belief of the full teaching that the sacrament that we receive is the true body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus.

Then I thought, “I’m being overly cautions.” We are in a meeting room and not in the church. This is taking place within the context of a prayer meeting-bible study. But then I thought, people are more psychological than logical. This practice might conflate the actual sacrament with the purely symbolic action taking place within our prayer group.

Some advice please.

I would listen to your warning bells. Sure, things can be done symbolically but something is activating your spidey senses. I was part of a theology class that was lead by a strange man. He ended up turning the class into a cult. One of the things that got me all worried was we would take bread and he wanted all, men and women to say the words of consecration. This man preyed on the members of the group from a supposedly Catholic school in the northwest. The class was disbanded but his influence still remains and he has “followers”

 

[atassina]

thanks for your advice. i simply want to confirm that i am not acting from my own personality choices instead of the gospel without compromise.