Symbolism...?

[EmmanuelGIWU]

Ever since reading Dan Brown several years back, I’d always kept an eye open for a proper encyclopedia for symbolism, not the kind of bull shxt that Brown liquidate brains with. Well, failing that, I guess I might start a thread there, pulling everyone’s knowledge together?

Before I start, just couple of points:

1. I don’t quite know where this thread should go, so feel free if the administrators want to move this somewhere else.
2. If there are any proper dictionary/encyclopedia/literature for church symbolism please let me know!

---

For example, the icon of Sacred Heart with blue and red lights shining through? Apparently red symbolises His divine nature, and blue symbolises His human nature.

Another example on scriptures: the numbers means a lot. So, apparently:
40= a long period of time
7= God/infinity
6= human
12= All (eg, Mary in the revelation had 12 stars on the crown, ie all the stars)

I wonder if these are “correct” interpretations of symbolism? Argh it is so fascinating!!!

 

[Peter_Dawson]

Ever since reading Dan Brown several years back, I’d always kept an eye open for a proper encyclopedia for symbolism, not the kind of bull shxt that Brown liquidate brains with. Well, failing that, I guess I might start a thread there, pulling everyone’s knowledge together?

Before I start, just couple of points:

1. I don’t quite know where this thread should go, so feel free if the administrators want to move this somewhere else.!!!

Hmmmm. If you use explitives like “bull shxt” too much, the administrators are going to move your posts to “File 13”!!!

…apparently:
40= a long period of time
7= God/infinity
6= human
12= All (eg, Mary in the revelation had 12 stars on the crown, ie all the stars)

I wonder if these are “correct” interpretations of symbolism? Argh it is so fascinating!!!

40 = “testing,” preparation."
7 = “perfect,” “complete,” “perfected,” “completed,” “perfectly” or “completely.”
6 = “evil.”
12 = “all of the tribes of God’s people.”

EmmanuelGIWU:

 

[fabricdragon]

there are several books of symbolism and symbols which INCLUDE Catholic ones. i will go find the titles…
but generally?
most cultures associate blue with sky/heavens, brown or black with earth, white with either purity or death, depending (west/ europe white=pure, eastwhite=death but can also mean pure or clean)
red is almost always associated with blood and is the color of Martyrs

some number symbols from varied sources

1. beginning, completeness, God
   2 is couple/union
   3 is family/growth
   4 is a square or cube and stability
   five is setbacks, and the five wounds, or the four earthly elements plus spirit. also the number fo man in some systems
   6 is the number asociated with the star of david…
   7 is perfection
   8? well it is a number that sounds like “death” in some asian languages
   9 almost complete
   10 completion
   11 (widely varied meanings)
   12 associated with the Jewish tribes, the zodiac, and more. often used as an artificial number for " a complete group"

 

[EmmanuelGIWU]

Hmmmm. If you use explitives like “bull shxt” too much, the administrators are going to move your posts to “File 13”!!!

sorry! i promise i’ll be a good boy and not do it again…

8? well it is a number that sounds like “death” in some asian languages

as far as i know (being from hong kong) 4 sounds like death in chinese (both mandarin and cantonese, plus various other chinese dialects) while 8 sounds like “get-rich” (verb)

but i guess it is important to understand that symbols usually have various meanings. for example the 4 can be associated with (in the biblical context) advent, the 4 angels in the revelation, etc etc, which are not mutually exclusive.

the orthodox church makes icons for centuries, drawing upon these symbolism that is almost like a language itself. for example, according to a monk in taize, the famous icon of jesus with the weird hand sign:

the three extended fingers (thumb, index and middle finger): three persons of god
the two un-extended fingers (ring and little finger): 2 natures of jesus
the big eyes: all-seeing
the little mouth: i cant remember what it means… ;p

well i am sure these are just one of the interpretations of the icon, and there must be other meanings we can draw from it. i see symbolism as kind of like the alethiometer in “his dark materials” series, where there are tens of thousands of explanations for one single symbol, let alone putting them all together.

 

[rcjones]

This site sensusplenior.net/?page_id=2 is an attempt to discern symbols directly from the Bible by letting the Bible speak for itself.

The numbers are different than popular numerology.

1 - Unity of God
2 - Dual nature - earthly/heavenly
3 - Trinity, Father , Son, Holy Ghost who reveal themselves through Word, Works, Life , who we ignore by being deaf, blind, lame and whom we receive when we can hear, see and walk.
4 - Four voices of God as Prophet, Priest, King and Judge
5 - Man in the flesh
6 - The dual testimony of the trinity in heaven and earth 2 x 3
7 - Fullness of God’s revelation
10 - dual natured man, Christ
12 - Restoration with an increase

There are a set of rules which are being used to constrain the meaning and avoid free-for-all allegory.

 

[Donna_P]

Ever since reading Dan Brown several years back, I’d always kept an eye open for a proper encyclopedia for symbolism, not the kind of bull shxt that Brown liquidate brains with. Well, failing that, I guess I might start a thread there, pulling everyone’s knowledge together?

Before I start, just couple of points:

1. I don’t quite know where this thread should go, so feel free if the administrators want to move this somewhere else.
2. If there are any proper dictionary/encyclopedia/literature for church symbolism please let me know!

---

For example, the icon of Sacred Heart with blue and red lights shining through? Apparently red symbolises His divine nature, and blue symbolises His human nature.

Another example on scriptures: the numbers means a lot. So, apparently:
40= a long period of time
7= God/infinity
6= human
12= All (eg, Mary in the revelation had 12 stars on the crown, ie all the stars)

I wonder if these are “correct” interpretations of symbolism? Argh it is so fascinating!!!

Actually, there is a wonderful book I read several years ago which helps greatly in interpreting the Scriptures through Sacred Art. It’s called Artfully Teaching the Faith by Steve Kellmeyer. It is wonderful and I will never look at sacred artwork the same again!

God bless!

 

[NHInsider]

This site sensusplenior.net/?page_id=2 is an attempt to discern symbols directly from the Bible by letting the Bible speak for itself.

There are a set of rules which are being used to constrain the meaning and avoid free-for-all allegory.

May I observe that while our friend rcjones has some very thoughtful and interesting beliefs and has done a tremendous amount of work, his teaching is not (and does not claim to be) in union with the Catholic Church.

 

[EmmanuelGIWU]

May I observe that while our friend rcjones has some very thoughtful and interesting beliefs and has done a tremendous amount of work, his teaching is not (and does not claim to be) in union with the Catholic Church.

Agree. Although he does say that that there are general rules and constrains related to the drawing of meanings from the said symbols.

Although I don’t necessarily agree with his interpretations, (6 being 2x3 is hardly persuasive. It is also 1x6 you know…) I also won’t rule out that kind of interpretation, I guess…

 

[NHInsider]

Agree. Although he does say that that there are general rules and constrains related to the drawing of meanings from the said symbols.

yes, but he made up the rules, too.

 

[srlucado]

If you *really *want to get into Catholic symbolism, check out Sr. Photina Rech’s 1200-page magnum opus, Key to the Cosmos, a Symbolism of Creation.

…Or maybe as an intro, her book Wine and Bread.

 

[rcjones]

yes, but he made up the rules, too.

I would hope that you would take the time to see that the rules are discovered using the same methods as the proposed sensus plenior If the rules are mere invention, then I also have no interest in them.

The method used was available in the first century. Although the methods are those of Midrash, Midrash was not constrained by the rules, nor did it incorporate the text of the New Testament. Hence Midrash is known for producing contradictory interpretations and for the Jewish observation that the scriptures have more riddles than answers.

Being the language of riddle, you must first know the answer (Christ) to see and understand the riddle properly. The Jews have no interest in seeing Christ, and therefore can never see him in the Old Testament.

I would also hope that there is not a great difference between my observations (these are offered as observations for discussion rather than doctrine) and that of the church. I am wary of my own “private interpretation” as well you should be.

Also, since the rules say that the symbolism can’t teach anything contradictory to the literal, IF it is complete invention, but we end up meditating on the Christ of the literal from the wrong texts, there is still no mortal foul and it is nothing more than a childish game that focuses our attention on Christ.

I hope it blesses you.

 

[EmmanuelGIWU]

If you *really *want to get into Catholic symbolism, check out Sr. Photina Rech’s 1200-page magnum opus, Key to the Cosmos, a Symbolism of Creation.

…Or maybe as an intro, her book Wine and Bread.

Did a quick search on Amazon, I can only find Wine and Bread but not the magnum opus one.

Thanks for pointing me at the right direction srlucado!