M
Mickey
Guest
Yes.
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jam070406
Guest
Rinnie,
I believe what Mickey is saying is that those that truly knew the Father were drawn to Jesus, by the Father. The Jews that worshipped the true God became Christians. I believe Jesus also has something to say about those Jews that reject Him. (not good)
I believe what Mickey is saying is that those that truly knew the Father were drawn to Jesus, by the Father. The Jews that worshipped the true God became Christians. I believe Jesus also has something to say about those Jews that reject Him. (not good)
M
Mickey
Guest
…the same God who reveals Himself by nature also reveals Himself supernaturally. Among other things, He revealed that the Divine Essence is in three consubstantial Persons.
So, supposing we insert this false note in our definition of God: “God is not a Trinity.”
Do we have the True God?
I think not.
Brother André Marie (Catholic Monk)
So, supposing we insert this false note in our definition of God: “God is not a Trinity.”
Do we have the True God?
I think not.
Brother André Marie (Catholic Monk)
R
rinnie
Guest
Mickey you can continue to say whatever you want. But just once could you show me a full scripture in the O.T that states CLEARLY that there are 3 distinct persons in One God.
I never denied that there were bits and pieces that HINTED of the Holy SPirit but was never truly revealed.
Here is the scripture that I promised to show you that it was not revealed to us clearly until Christ the King revealed it to us.
IT Is Christ who unfolded the Mystery of the Trinity throughout the N.T.
In Luke 10:21 Jesus states I Bless you Father Lord in heaven for hiding these things from the mere learned… ( what was he hiding Mickey, if it was all clearlly revealed?)
Jesus reveals t us in John 10:30 The Father and I are one.
Jesus said to his Aposltes in John he would send the Spirit. He said in John 15:26 When the Advocate has come whom I WILL SEND you from the Father the Spirit of Truth who proceeeds from the Father HE WILL bear witness concerning me. There is no where in the O.T. that states the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
Jesus himself testified only he himself was capable of introducing us the Mystery of the Trinity. SInce no one has seen God no one knew the mystery of inner life. John 1:18
It was Jesus who IDENTIFIED HIMSELF and the Father as 2 distinct persons. That the Father is in me, and I am in him. It is Jesus who introduces to us the comming of the Holy Spirit to the Church.
There is too much to get into but if anyone truly wants to read this go to CCC 702-747 it will show you how the fullness of this mystery was completed and given to us by the fullness and completion of Christ.
I never denied that there were bits and pieces that HINTED of the Holy SPirit but was never truly revealed.
Here is the scripture that I promised to show you that it was not revealed to us clearly until Christ the King revealed it to us.
IT Is Christ who unfolded the Mystery of the Trinity throughout the N.T.
In Luke 10:21 Jesus states I Bless you Father Lord in heaven for hiding these things from the mere learned… ( what was he hiding Mickey, if it was all clearlly revealed?)
Jesus reveals t us in John 10:30 The Father and I are one.
Jesus said to his Aposltes in John he would send the Spirit. He said in John 15:26 When the Advocate has come whom I WILL SEND you from the Father the Spirit of Truth who proceeeds from the Father HE WILL bear witness concerning me. There is no where in the O.T. that states the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
Jesus himself testified only he himself was capable of introducing us the Mystery of the Trinity. SInce no one has seen God no one knew the mystery of inner life. John 1:18
It was Jesus who IDENTIFIED HIMSELF and the Father as 2 distinct persons. That the Father is in me, and I am in him. It is Jesus who introduces to us the comming of the Holy Spirit to the Church.
There is too much to get into but if anyone truly wants to read this go to CCC 702-747 it will show you how the fullness of this mystery was completed and given to us by the fullness and completion of Christ.
R
rinnie
Guest
Again you still are giving your opinion. You are saying that because a Muslim or Jew worship the God Of Abraham the God Of Abraham is a false god. You need to show where scripture has ever said that the God of Abraham is NOT our God also.
The point again is not do they deny the Holy Spirit. Is the God of Abraham one of the 3 persons in the Holy Trinity and the answer is YES. If you agree with this, then how can you say we have a different GOd. This is impossible.
Jesus Christ said he and the Father are One. How can you pray to the God of Abraham who is one with Christ and the Holy Spirit and worship a false God.I cannot comprehend for the life of me your understanding. I am trying so hard, but its not possible.
What this post is saying is for US who know the truth we know that when we pray to God we are praying to the Trinity. But is it possible to pray to the God of Abraham and not pray to the Trinity, NO, but they do not know this.
SO in essence anyone who prays to the God of Abraham they are indeed praying to the true God and also the Holy Trinity but they cannot understand this. But rather they are in complete understanding or not, does not change the fact. The fact being when you pray to the Father you are also praying to the Son and Holy Spirt.
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Mickey
Guest
I will continue to quote Scripture and the Fathers. If you cannot receive it…that is up to you.
It is Christ who is present throughout the OT.
Christ often talked in parables in the N.T. That has nothing to do with syncrestic prayers with muslims.
Indeed. And the Muslims and Jews still reject it today.
This thread is not about the Filioque.
That is why it was always Christ in the OT…thank you for helping to prove my point.
M
Mickey
Guest
No. I am saying that they do not worship the God of Abraham…haven’t you been reading this thread?
The God of Abraham is our God…He is the Trinitarian God…He is the one true God.
Exactly!!! Now you are getting it! Those who reject the Trinitarian God…the Holy Spirit…and the divinity of Christ…are not praying to the God of Abraham.
They know it for sure…but they reject it…and so they are not really praying to the one, true God.
Not if you reject the Holy Spirit and the Son of God.
J
jam070406
Guest
John 8:42-45
J
jam070406
Guest
If you deny Me before men I will deny you before the Father.
Do those that deny Jesus know the Father?
M
Mickey
Guest
I believe the answer is no.Do those that deny Jesus know the Father?
F
Fone_Bone_2001
Guest
(a) Encouraging them to show tolerance and not try to “convert” us all “by sword.” Since such an activity (interfaith prayer) is by nature peaceful and cooperative, engaging in it encourages similar behavior despite different religious beliefs. It also helps bring us together so that we can work together on issues we both care about: combating poverty and secularism, etc.
(b) Your assertion that we “worship the one true God” and they worship “a made up god from the Koran” is question-begging and false. Jam, your profile says you’re Catholic, so you really shouldn’t be dissenting so blithely from the Second Vatican Council’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, from which CCC 841 takes its assertion that we share the same God.
M
Mickey
Guest
Wow! So then it is required of every Catholic to believe that they share the same god as the muslims because of this document. Are you really labeled as a dissenter if you do not accept this?
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rinnie
Guest
The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims these profess to hold the faith of Abraham and TOGETHER with US THEY ADORE the ONE Merciful God mankind judge on the last day.
I will not argue with you or Mickey any longer. This is not MY opinion. This is the teaching of the Holy Father which is clearly written in the CCC.
If you feel that you and Mickey have the authority to teach in the name of Christ please show me that authority. Until then I will obey and learn from the teachings of my Pope who has authroity passed down to him by the power of the Holy Spirit.
If you re-read that teaching it states TOGETHER WITH US they Adore the ONE merciful God, So if we both adore the One Merciful God then what would praying together with them hurt.
Please show me where they reject the ONE Merciful God in praying to the God of Abraham. Mickey could not do so maybe you can. IF you can show me some official Church teaching that trumps the teaching of the Pope I would like to see this.
J
jam070406
Guest
Do you believe the Koran is inspired by the Holy Spirit?
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rinnie
Guest
The CCC is offered to every individual who asks us to give account of the hope this is in us 1 Peter 3:15 and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.
So are you asking if a Catholic is to believe what the Church believes and Teaches. Absolutely.
Tell me Mickey where is my authority to trump the Church on what it believes and teaches?
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jam070406
Guest
Do you believe that plan is Jesus Christ?
M
Mickey
Guest
It is a known fact that they do not recognize the divinity of Christ or the Holy Spirit…therefore they do not pray to the one, true, God…the God of Abraham…the Trinitarian God. It is as simple as that. Pope John Paul II went too far in his quest for ecumenism…but since it is not an infallible document, (according to your Church), I do not believe that it is required for you to accept it.
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)
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Mickey
Guest
No. I asked two questions:
- Is it required of every Catholic to believe that they share the same god as the muslims because of this document?
- Are you really labeled as a dissenter if you do not accept this?
J
jam070406
Guest
Wait wait…you’re saying this matter concerning worship of the same God is a matter of dogma!?
M
Mickey
Guest
Yes. That’s how I interpreted his statement.
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