Syncretistic prayers with Muslims... any advice?

[Busy_bee]

1. Common participation in worship (communicatio in sacris) which harms the unity of the Church or involves formal acceptance of error or the danger of aberration in the faith, of scandal and indifferentism, is forbidden by divine law.

• DECREE ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES
  OF THE EASTERN RITE
  ORIENTALIUM ECCLESIARUM
  SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
  POPE PAUL VI
  ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

Please, is this part of the reason why JPII’s action of kissing the Koran is viewed with distaste by the Eastern churches? If it isn’t, could it please be explained?

 

[Mickey]

• DECREE ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES
  OF THE EASTERN RITE
  ORIENTALIUM ECCLESIARUM
  SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
  POPE PAUL VI
  ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

Please, is this part of the reason why JPII’s action of kissing the Koran is viewed with distaste by the Eastern churches?

That’s a start. I think it is also view with distaste by many Latin Catholics also.

 

[rinnie]

I think most of your Catholic brethren are cognizant of the truth…and it does not coincide with what you are arguing here.
Nostra Aetate? It has been mentioned that Nostra Aetate aped an opinion that was written in a non-magisterial letter by Pope Gregory VII.
Exactly…they can’t trace it back…because they do not worship the God of Abraham.

www.catholicfidelity.com/ is in complete line with the Teaching of my beloved Pope JPll and this site is in direct line with what I have been saying.

IF you are correct Mickey, as ths site will confirm, you are not only accusing Muslims of Idolators you are implying Noah, Abraham, Moses etc worship a false God also.

That had no idea of the Trinity which I have told you time after time, even though it was indeed implied in the N.T. the clear teaching never existed. They had NO idea he would take on a human nature as St Paul made quite clear.

St Paul tells us the mystery of Christ was not made know to other generations as it has been revealed to his Holy Apostles. You continue to say it was. In spite of the word of God.
As l this will show you, please go read it for yourself Vatican Council ll and the Pope have taught RIGHTLY that INSPITE of the belief in the Incarnation and Trinity Musslims cannot Justly be classifed as Idolaters.

As I said all along the Pope was correct in his teaching, and I was correct in my interpretation of his teachings.

 

[rinnie]

My understanding of NA and LG so far when it comes to muslims is that the Church acknowledges the fact that they believe they are serving the one true God, and so says that they are included in the plan of salvation. It doesn’t say it agrees that they worship him.

Anyway, I can see why it is hard to interpret - so many possibilities of misunderstanding it. I have found a document on line that has labelled many aspects of LG as heretic. The argument is formidable, but even then it’s clear the church has been misunderstood.

I totally disagree, I believe the Church and the CCC is quite clear on what it teaches.

It it was not clear as I state it would not say together with us they adore the One True God. IT linked us together.

And I stand as earlier if you accuse them, you accuse the RCC. There is no other way around it.

 

[jam070406]

www.catholicfidelity.com/ is in complete line with the Teaching of my beloved Pope JPll and this site is in direct line with what I have been saying.

IF you are correct Mickey, as ths site will confirm, you are not only accusing Muslims of Idolators you are implying Noah, Abraham, Moses etc worship a false God also.

That had no idea of the Trinity which I have told you time after time, even though it was indeed implied in the N.T. the clear teaching never existed. They had NO idea he would take on a human nature as St Paul made quite clear.

St Paul tells us the mystery of Christ was not made know to other generations as it has been revealed to his Holy Apostles. You continue to say it was. In spite of the word of God.
As l this will show you, please go read it for yourself Vatican Council ll and the Pope have taught RIGHTLY that INSPITE of the belief in the Incarnation and Trinity Musslims cannot Justly be classifed as Idolaters.

As I said all along the Pope was correct in his teaching, and I was correct in my interpretation of his teachings.

 

[Mickey]

you are implying Noah, Abraham, Moses etc worship a false God also.

Absolute nonsense. I am saying that Muslims do not worship the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

That had no idea of the Trinity which I have told you time after time

I have offered multiple examples of Christ and the Holy Spirit in the OT…you choose to ignore those posts…and the Scripture.

You continue to say it was. In spite of the word of God.

You are twisting Scripture to suit your erroneous belief about Muslims.

For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me.
John 5:46

I was correct in my interpretation of his teachings.

Nope.

 

[Mickey]

I totally disagree, I believe the Church and the CCC is quite clear on what it teaches.

“Since the Catechism treats many things that not only have not been taught infallibly but which also have been proposed in the most tentative of fashions (esp. in the area of social teaching), there remains due liberty for theologians (and others) when they encounter something that has been proposed only tentatively.”
Cardinal Ratzinger

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

There is one God. That God is Trinitarian. Muslim do not worship the Trinitarian God. Hence they do not worship the God of Abraham. To say otherwise seems nonsensical.

I will once again repeat that since transcendent monotheism is the truth, errors about God in religions that otherwise profess transcendent monotheism constitute errors about God… not real characteristics of an unreal other god.

Muslims are not seperated brethren.

I agree with you on that.

Actually, if you talk to atheists you will find that they pretty consistently agree with you and Mickey.

They are very fond of the argument “everyone is an atheist about all gods except their own–we’re just atheists about one more god.”

My position is the best refutation of atheism.

Edwin

Precisely. The position of our interlocutors on this thread reinforces the atheist quip about how we’re *all *actually atheists…

Your position is relativistic and syncretistic at best.

False. Transparently and absolutely false.

I agree. They are pointless documents.

Wow. That’s a startlingly and irresponsibly sweeping generalization. Those two documents did a lot more than blab about Muslims; in fact, they barely mention them. Lumen Gentium, for instance, did wonders in promoting and defining episcopal collegiality, and emphasizing the universal call to holiness.

 

[jam070406]

I will once again repeat that since transcendent monotheism is the truth, errors about God in religions that otherwise profess transcendent monotheism constitute errors about God… not real characteristics of an unreal other god.

I agree with you on that.

Precisely. The position of our interlocutors on this thread reinforces the atheist quip about how we’re *all *actually atheists…

False. Transparently and absolutely false.

Wow. That’s a startlingly and irresponsibly sweeping generalization. Those two documents did a lot more than blab about Muslims; in fact, they barely mention them. Lumen Gentium, for instance, did wonders in promoting and defining episcopal collegiality, and emphasizing the universal call to holiness.

Ok. I take back my comment concerning the documents . The section on Muslims was pointless.

 

[Mickey]

I will once again repeat that since transcendent monotheism is the truth, errors about God in religions that otherwise profess transcendent monotheism constitute errors about God… not real characteristics of an unreal other god.

You have been repeating this for two weeks. I’m not buying your “transcendent philosophicsal” explanation…neither do the majority of Catholics (especially Eastern).
Here it is for you again:

Muslim do not acknowledge and knowingly reject Jesus Christ and the Trinitarian God. Therefore they are not praying to the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham.

Transparently and absolutely false.

Not at all.

 

[jam070406]

You have been repeating this for two weeks. I’m not buying your “transcendent philosophicsal” explanation…in my opinion…neither do the majority of Catholics (especially Eastern).
Here it is again for you again:

Muslim do not acknowledge and knowingly reject Jesus Christ and ther Trinitarian God. Therefore they are not praying to the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham.
Not at all.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Ok. I take back my comment concerning the documents . The section on Muslims was pointless.

Fair enough.

Muslim do not acknowledge and knowingly reject Jesus Christ and the Trinitarian God. Therefore they are not praying to the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham.

Yes they are.

Their God is Trinitarian despite their denial of the fact. They claim that God is not a Trinity, and they are wrong about that, because He is.

 

[jam070406]

I will once again repeat that since transcendent monotheism is the truth, errors about God in religions that otherwise profess transcendent monotheism constitute errors about God… not real characteristics of an unreal other god.

Truth is a person. Jesus Christ.

 

[rinnie]

Absolute nonsense. I am saying that Muslims do not worship the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
I have offered multiple examples of Christ and the Holy Spirit in the OT…you choose to ignore those posts…and the Scripture.
You are twisting Scripture to suit your erroneous belief about Muslims.

For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me.
John 5:46
Nope.

Because it is not the truth. Go to the site I gave you and address the questions that the Priest has set out for you.

Prove the Priest wrong then Mickey. With scriptures and the word of God where he proved you completely wrong.

Nope, and accusations do not bother me Mickey, But you ability to show any kind of true teaching is what does bother me.

If you feel that you are correct and the Priest is wrong. Prove him wrong. Show everyone here that you are right and the Priest is wrong. Thats all!!

 

[Mickey]

Their God is Trinitarian despite their denial of the fact.

Wow. This is unbelievable reasoning. They deny the Trinitarian God. They do not pray to the Trinitarian God.

But they still pray to the Trinitarian God.

Nonsense.

 

[jam070406]

Their God is Trinitarian despite their denial of the fact. They claim that God is not a Trinity, and they are wrong about that, because He is.

Their God is Trinitarian. But they do not worship Him. Because Truth is not in them.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Wow. This is unbelievable reasoning. They deny the Trinitarian God. They do not pray to the Trinitarian God.

But they still pray to the Trinitarian God.

Nonsense.

Actually, there is a very simple and sensible reason why this is so. Would you like me to say (again) what it is?

Their God is Trinitarian. But they do not worship Him. Because Truth is not in them.

You know, this is not such an unreasonable statement. You may be onto something there, actually… (I’m not being sarcastic, jam; this is actually an impressively nuanced set of assertions)

 

[rinnie]

Truth is a person. Jesus Christ.

Correct. And it is the Church that has revealed all of this to us. It is as St Paul teaches us that the mystery of Christ was not made known to other generations as it as been revealed to his Holy Apostles.

It is by the teaching of the Holy Apostles that the Mystery of Christ as the Son of God and the 2nd person of the Trinity that it has been revealed.

Failure to accept the revelation of the Christian age DOES NOT STOP MUSLIMS from Worhsiping God anymore then the Jews. It only means that they know less about God and that they have erroneous ideas.

 

[Mickey]

Go to the site I gave you and address the questions that the Priest has set out for you.

Is it as unconvincing as is your argument?

Prove the Priest wrong then Mickey.

I think I have already done a fair job over the past couple of weeks of showing that Muslims to not pray to the one true God. I have nothing to prove. My ego is not that big…I hope.

With scriptures and the word of God where he proved you completely wrong.

But you ability to show any kind of true teaching is what does bother me.

Stick and stones.

Show everyone here that you are right and the Priest is wrong.

I have already exposed your erroneous thinking over and over again…and if you agree with this site…why should I repeat myself?

Besides the link you gave just takes me to a generic site.

 

[jam070406]

Correct. And it is the Church that has revealed all of this to us. It is as St Paul teaches us that the mystery of Christ was not made known to other generations as it as been revealed to his Holy Apostles.

It is by the teaching of the Holy Apostles that the Mystery of Christ as the Son of God and the 2nd person of the Trinity that it has been revealed.

Failure to accept the revelation of the Christian age DOES NOT STOP MUSLIMS from Worhsiping God anymore then the Jews. It only means that they know less about God and that they have erroneous ideas.

You went off the rails on the last part.