M
Mickey
Guest
No he did not. He preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ until he was martyred for the faith.
Your false witness is making you look foolish.
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C
couponfit
Guest
Hi Mickey,See post # 721.
Yes…let’s!!!
Yes. The Trinitarian God.
No way.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
I have a few questions…
If the question had been about prayers with Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox how would you have answers?
What about prayers with protestants?
What about prayers with mormons?
What about prayers with Jews?
How do you define praying with another group, in this case Muslims, to be against scripture?
In what cases could it ever be allowed?
Is it ok to force a muslim to convert?
Can we torture them?
Can we kill them to force conversion of the society, killing some for example?
Can we banish them?
Can we shun them?
Can we deny them access to our catholic churches and shrines even if their intention on conversion is unclear?
Can we join with them during rallies against abortion during pro life demonstrations?
If i’m in a baseball game during prayer and amongst the 5,000 in attendance could be Muslims, must I abstain from prayer?
During school, there are some muslims in my daughters class, can she pray during the moment of silence even if they are praying too?
Thank you.
J
jam070406
Guest
Wha…???
M
Mickey
Guest
You asked 15 questions. I will answer those questions which somewhat pertain to this thread. You are free to start other threads pertaining to the other questions if you wish. I will try to participate, if time permits…I am enetring a phase where I will soon be much less internet active.
They do not pray to the Trinitarian God. They do not recognize the divinity of Christ or the Holy Spirit. There is no reason for me pray with them. I can pray for them to come to know Jesus Christ.
My child is home schooled.
R
rinnie
Guest
Quite simple go back and read the scripture for yourself. St Paul was a great educated Man in the Law.
The Lord said Saul Saul why are you persecuting me? Why Indeed. As Mickey has tried to make us believe that if you do not know God in the Trinity, it makes the God of Araham False.
How could St Paul know Christ as the SON OF GOD, the 2nd person in the Trinity and persecute the Church.
You have 2 options here.
You either agree with the Church that if you do not have the Trinity revealed to you, you can still pray to the One True God the God of Abraham.
Or you take Mickey’s version and beings that scripture is QUITE clear that St Paul was cruficying the Catholic Church, and indeed followed the God of Abraham, then it makes the God of Abraham false. WHich is is NO WAY in line with scripture.
Go back and read, Mickey said the Trinity was clearly taught by Abraham. Jesus said to ST Peter that GOD revealed it to him. So St Peter also followed a false GOd, HE followed the GOd of Abraham also, he never saw it. BUt according to what many agree on here, if you do not SEE GOd in the Trinity you are following a false god. Thats whats been said here, clearly for a good 2 weeks.
That is. you do not SEE the Trinity and reject it because you cannot see it, then you clearly are not following the God of Abraham and are worshiping a false God.
Mickey stated himself he puts the Jews in the same mix.
J
jam070406
Guest
Galatians 3
:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
J
jam070406
Guest
Muslims are not baptized in Christ. They do not belong to Christ, therefore are not heirs of Abraham and do not have the Faith of Abraham.
M
Mickey
Guest
Yes. I pray that rinnie might come to understand some day.
St Paul willing rejected Christ…the Word made flesh…the Truth. But he had a wonderful conversion…a metanoia…and he became an apostle of Christ.
The Muslims still reject Him. It is my hope that like St Paul…they will also have a conversion of mind and heart.
But until then…they are not worshipping the God of Abraham.
J
jam070406
Guest
Indeed. It is my prayer as well.
R
rinnie
Guest
But lets make this quiet clear Mickey, Do not avoid what was asked of you.
Are you saying St Paul before his conversion worshipped a false God? And was not worshipping the ONE TRUE GOD the God of Abraham.
And simple yes or no would be Great!
M
Mickey
Guest
I Have not avoided anything. However you have avoided most of what has been set forth to you.
I do not know the heart of St Paul before his great conversion. I only know that he did not accept Jesus Christ before his conversion.
St Paul was a pharisee before his conversion. He did not acknowledge Christ. But he had an amazing conversion and became an Apostle. He wrote the bulk of the New Testament.
This tactic of using St Paul to defend Muslims is sad and deparate.
J
jam070406
Guest
It could be said that at the point of his conversion he acknowledged the Creator, professed the Faith of Abraham and adored the one true God along with the other Apostles.
M
Mickey
Guest
It could be said that at the point of his conversion he acknowledged the Creator, professed the Faith of Abraham and adored the one true God along with the other Apostles.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
When we say there’s ONE GOD. Its a foregone conclusion in Christianity that Jesus Christ is that one God. For that is the 6th covenant in the Bible which made God/Jesus Christ through the Cross thus Christianity Universal in salvation. How is one saved without Christ, thus the redemption?
The fundemental issue is that Islam rejects this. Then the question which follows is how could you possibly pray to the same God when you reject Christ is God?
How could you be saved? Well lets look.
Gods Covenants are 6 with the 7th to come Biblically which is the Second Coming of Christ, thats a yet. The other 6 are knowns.
Adam- Marriage
Noah- Household
Abraham- The Tribe
Mose’s- 12 Tribes of Israel
David- Kingdom of God became one Nation
Jesus Christ- is the “New Covenant of God”, which is the International Nation.
How is it possible to delete the the last three and speak about Abraham? And thats the fundemental issue. They “Islam” are still caught in that Tribal mentality where “none” get along. Not hard to see why. Look at any one of their countries? They are forced into submission through hate and violence. And if you rebel you are imprisoned and face Sharia Law.
Christ spoke on the followers of Abraham in the Bible? What did he say? They were not followers of His Father, for if they were, they would follow His laws. They do not follow Gods laws, they follow “Mohammads” and how did he die? Poisoned without even knowing it? A Prophet of God?
Mohammad asked, “Have you poisoned this sheep?” They said, “Yes.” He asked, “What made you do so?” They said, “We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you.”
Where in the Koran are you saved? In fact all Muslims go directly to hell. Ask them, they’ll tell you.
Just IMHO, perhaps I have it wrong?
The fundemental issue is that Islam rejects this. Then the question which follows is how could you possibly pray to the same God when you reject Christ is God?
How could you be saved? Well lets look.Gods Covenants are 6 with the 7th to come Biblically which is the Second Coming of Christ, thats a yet. The other 6 are knowns.
Adam- Marriage
Noah- Household
Abraham- The Tribe
Mose’s- 12 Tribes of Israel
David- Kingdom of God became one Nation
Jesus Christ- is the “New Covenant of God”, which is the International Nation.
How is it possible to delete the the last three and speak about Abraham? And thats the fundemental issue. They “Islam” are still caught in that Tribal mentality where “none” get along. Not hard to see why. Look at any one of their countries? They are forced into submission through hate and violence. And if you rebel you are imprisoned and face Sharia Law.
Christ spoke on the followers of Abraham in the Bible? What did he say? They were not followers of His Father, for if they were, they would follow His laws.
They do not follow Gods laws, they follow “Mohammads” and how did he die? Poisoned without even knowing it? A Prophet of God?Mohammad asked, “Have you poisoned this sheep?” They said, “Yes.” He asked, “What made you do so?” They said, “We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you.”
Where in the Koran are you saved? In fact all Muslims go directly to hell. Ask them, they’ll tell you.
Just IMHO, perhaps I have it wrong?
R
rinnie
Guest
No it is actually the word of God. ST Paul had the faith of Abraham before his conversion.
I did not ask you if he acknowledged Christ, I KNOW he did not. IF he did why would he persecute him in his Church. It was not until Christ revealed himself that he accepted him.
You made your claim and it was loud and clear if a person does not accept Christ in the Trinity they have a false God and cannot have the God OF Abraham.
Please answer the question did ST Paul have the God of Abraham? Simple question. Either he did indeed have the true GOd of Abraham before his coversion as I stated and the Church is correct.
Or you are correct and the GOd of Abraham that ST Paul prayed to before his conversion was false.
Please answer the question,
B
Busy_bee
Guest
Excuse me! The Jews worship the one true God of Abraham. If they don’t who does? It is from the revelations made to them by this one true God. Paul was a Jew, and he simply didn’t understand that all they have been waiting for had come and gone and he was working against it. Once again, wrong analogy. This is not the case with the muslims at all.
C
couponfit
Guest
Thank you.
R
rinnie
Guest
It sure could. But the question is did he follow a false God before his conversion. Thats the question, what is your answer?It could be said that at the point of his conversion he acknowledged the Creator, professed the Faith of Abraham and adored the one true God along with the other Apostles.
Was the God of St Paul the God of Abraham a false God before his conversion?
R
rinnie
Guest
Mickey said they don’t not me. The Jews do not accept Christ in the Trinity, How can they have the true God of Abraham and not accept the Trinity but the Muslims cannot do the same?
I have always agreed that they BOTH have the true GOD OF ABRAHAM. Please show me where I denied either?
J
jam070406
Guest
It’s rather irrelevant because Paul was not a Muslim. Islam came 7 centuries later. And it was Paul that tells us that those who are baptized and put on Christ have the Faith of Abraham. And Muslims…do NOT.
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