Syncretistic prayers with Muslims... any advice?

[Mickey]

It was not until Christ revealed himself that he accepted him.

God chose St Paul to be an Apostle. Christ is there for all to know…some reject Him…like the Muslims…and in rejecting Him and the Trinitarian God…they are not worshipping the God of Abraham.

You made your claim and it was loud and clear

Thank you

Please answer the question did ST Paul have the God of Abraham?

Of course he did…he was an Apostle of Christ. Before that…he did not accept Christ…he was a pharisee.

Please answer the question

I have answered the question of this thread many times…but you are not listening. The Muslims do not worship the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham.

 

[Mickey]

It’s rather irrelevant because Paul was not a Muslim. Islam came 7 centuries later. And it was Paul that tells us that those who are baptized and put on Christ have the Faith of Abraham. And Muslims…do NOT.

Exactly. Rinnie is getting desparate to prove her erroneous claims.

 

[rinnie]

God chose St Paul to be an Apostle. Christ is there for all to know…some reject Him…like the Muslims…and in rejecting Him and the Trinitarian God…they are not worshipping the God of Abraham.
Thank youOf course he did…he was an Apostle of Christ. Before that…he did not accept Christ…he was a pharisee.
I have answered the question of this thread many times…but you are not listening. The Muslims do not worship the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham.

I know what you said. BUt why are you avoiding the question that I have asked you. I know all about how God chose St Paul to be an Apostle. I never asked you that.

I never asked you if the Muslims reject Christ in the Trinity, I know that also.

Please answer the SIMPLE question.

Did St Paul before his conversion worship a False God? How much easier can the question get?

 

[rinnie]

It’s rather irrelevant because Paul was not a Muslim. Islam came 7 centuries later. And it was Paul that tells us that those who are baptized and put on Christ have the Faith of Abraham. And Muslims…do NOT.

How can it be irrelevant? St Paul was a Jew before his conversion and rejected Christ in the Trinity. According to you a Mickey if you do not accept Christ in the Trinity you can not have the God of Abraham and follow a false God.

Again you answer it then. Before the conversion of ST Paul did he worship a false God?

 

[rinnie]

Exactly. Rinnie is getting desparate to prove her erroneous claims./QUOT

How can me showing you proof in the word of God making me desparate? Prove me wrong then!

THe Jews did not accept Christ but indeed still have the GOd of Abraham, You said it is not possible. THen was the God of ST Paul the GOd of Abraham a false god. Simple question.

 

[Busy_bee]

www.catholicfidelity.com/ is in complete line with the Teaching of my beloved Pope JPll and this site is in direct line with what I have been saying.

IF you are correct Mickey, as ths site will confirm, you are not only accusing Muslims of Idolators you are implying Noah, Abraham, Moses etc worship a false God also.

That had no idea of the Trinity which I have told you time after time, even though it was indeed implied in the N.T. the clear teaching never existed. They had NO idea he would take on a human nature as St Paul made quite clear.

St Paul tells us the mystery of Christ was not made know to other generations as it has been revealed to his Holy Apostles. You continue to say it was. In spite of the word of God.
As l this will show you, please go read it for yourself Vatican Council ll and the Pope have taught RIGHTLY that INSPITE of the belief in the Incarnation and Trinity Musslims cannot Justly be classifed as Idolaters.

As I said all along the Pope was correct in his teaching, and I was correct in my interpretation of his teachings.

but for the muslims, not only do they NOT have the true revelation of God, they have a false one (from our point of view as christians). Even the Jews will see it that way. God does not change - so just because something about His nature has not been unveiled does not mean those who worship with limited knowledge of Him are worshipping a false God.

The muslims are not worshipping God. I cannot call them Idolaters, because that will be to say that they worship a deity other than God. They do not. Their religion is a non-religion. They worship an idea that doesn’t exist.

The reason I say the muslims do not worship the one true God is because they have a false revelation of the very essence of God. It’s not because they do not believe in the trinity. That Abraham, Noah, etc didn’t know God was Trinity in unity doesn’t mean that their knowledge of him was false. It only means it was incomplete!

 

[rinnie]

but for the muslims, not only do they NOT have the true revelation of God, they have a false one (from our point of view as christians). Even the Jews will see it that way. God does not change - so just because something about His nature has not been unveiled does not mean those who worship with limited knowledge of Him are worshipping a false God.

The muslims are not worshipping God. I cannot call them Idolaters, because that will be to say that they worship a deity other than God. They do not. Their religion is a non-religion. They worship an idea that doesn’t exist.

The reason I say the muslims do not worship the one true God is because they have a false revelation of the very essence of God. It’s not because they do not believe in the trinity. That Abraham, Noah, etc didn’t know God was Trinity in unity doesn’t mean that their knowledge of him was false. It only means it was incomplete!

Busy Bee, please listen to me. We are not discussing if the Muslims have the true teaching of the ONE TRUE GOD. We know they do not.

They follow the teachings of a false prophet.

But does the teaching of the false prophet make the GOD OF ABRAHAM the God of the false prophet false. The answer is NO.

It was not GOD the GOD OF ABRAHAM who gave him the false revelation, It was Muhamad who claims he did. THere is no other simple way to explain it to you then that.

 

[rinnie]

but for the muslims, not only do they NOT have the true revelation of God, they have a false one (from our point of view as christians). Even the Jews will see it that way. God does not change - so just because something about His nature has not been unveiled does not mean those who worship with limited knowledge of Him are worshipping a false God.

The muslims are not worshipping God. I cannot call them Idolaters, because that will be to say that they worship a deity other than God. They do not. Their religion is a non-religion. They worship an idea that doesn’t exist.

The reason I say the muslims do not worship the one true God is because they have a false revelation of the very essence of God. It’s not because they do not believe in the trinity. That Abraham, Noah, etc didn’t know God was Trinity in unity doesn’t mean that their knowledge of him was false. It only means it was incomplete!

No busy bee the reason you cannot call then idolaters is because the worship the God of Abraham the same as us.

Can you call their teachings or religion false, of course you can. But they have the God of Abraham and we cannot call him false.

 

[rinnie]

but for the muslims, not only do they NOT have the true revelation of God, they have a false one (from our point of view as christians). Even the Jews will see it that way. God does not change - so just because something about His nature has not been unveiled does not mean those who worship with limited knowledge of Him are worshipping a false God.

The muslims are not worshipping God. I cannot call them Idolaters, because that will be to say that they worship a deity other than God. They do not. Their religion is a non-religion. They worship an idea that doesn’t exist.

The reason I say the muslims do not worship the one true God is because they have a false revelation of the very essence of God. It’s not because they do not believe in the trinity. That Abraham, Noah, etc didn’t know God was Trinity in unity doesn’t mean that their knowledge of him was false. It only means it was incomplete!

Is the revelation of the Eucharist true. Of course it is, but because protestants reject this revelation does it make their GOD false. Of course not. Do you see what I have been trying to say for 2 weeks now.

 

[Busy_bee]

Their God is Trinitarian despite their denial of the fact. They claim that God is not a Trinity, and they are wrong about that, because He is.

The thing is, you make it sound like they CHOOSE to deny it. They MUSTN"T, CAN"T AFFORD TO ACCEPT IT, because it goes against the very essence of their religion-their revelation!!!

It’s like you are saying, they worship the one true God, they just don’t know it yet-it sounds so funny!
It is faith. They are not idolaters, they are worshipping someone who doesn’t exist or exists only in the Koran.
They are saying they worship the God of Abraham. They need to walk their talk because the God of Abraham never revealed ANY of the things in the Koran to Mohammed. Whatever truth is in the Koran came from his association with christianity.
If they were worshipping say, the sun, and they believed the sun was the God of Abraham, then they would be idolaters. They are not idolaters because their worship is to a non-entity.

 

[Busy_bee]

Is the revelation of the Eucharist true. Of course it is, but because protestants reject this revelation does it make their GOD false. Of course not. Do you see what I have been trying to say for 2 weeks now.

No Rinnee. You still don’t understand me. I can’t keep saying the same thing over and over.
Please read what I wrote again.

 

[jam070406]

How can it be irrelevant? St Paul was a Jew before his conversion and rejected Christ in the Trinity. According to you a Mickey if you do not accept Christ in the Trinity you can not have the God of Abraham and follow a false God.

Again you answer it then. Before the conversion of ST Paul did he worship a false God?

Paul followed the law. Some of which were prescribed by the one true God, some which were man made, as Jesus pointed out.
Paul came to have Faith when he met Jesus and was radically converted.
I think you have a flawed understanding of the faith of Abraham.
Muslims are a whole different story. Apples and oranges.

 

[jam070406]

Is the revelation of the Eucharist true. Of course it is, but because protestants reject this revelation does it make their GOD false. Of course not. Do you see what I have been trying to say for 2 weeks now.

Are Mormons Christian?

 

[jam070406]

Is the revelation of the Eucharist true. Of course it is, but because protestants reject this revelation does it make their GOD false. Of course not. Do you see what I have been trying to say for 2 weeks now.

Were Arians Christian?

 

[rinnie]

Paul followed the law. Some of which were prescribed by the one true God, some which were man made, as Jesus pointed out.
Paul came to have Faith when he met Jesus and was radically converted.
I think you have a flawed understanding of the faith of Abraham.
Muslims are a whole different story. Apples and oranges.

Oh really. Well before we go any further why do you refuse to answer my question? It is so simple.

Did ST Paul follow the GOD OF ABRAHAM and was the GOD OF ABRAHAM the ONE TRUE GOD before he met Jesus. SImple question.

ANd also are you saying Paul did not have faith then, before he met Christ. I am quite confused here.

But we will address this later. Please answer my question did St Paul worship a false God before he met Christ?

 

[rinnie]

Were Arians Christian?

You tell me, you seem to know so much more then I. ANd disagree with everything I say anyway. What do you say?

 

[Busy_bee]

Busy Bee, please listen to me. We are not discussing if the Muslims have the true teaching of the ONE TRUE GOD. We know they do not.

They follow the teachings of a false prophet.

But does the teaching of the false prophet make the GOD OF ABRAHAM the God of the false prophet false. The answer is NO.

It was not GOD the GOD OF ABRAHAM who gave him the false revelation, It was Muhamad who claims he did. THere is no other simple way to explain it to you then that.

Good! Now to be a muslim, you are professing the God of Mohammed, not some unknown God whom christians say is a Trinity. (You have look at it as a muslim does).
If I say, I believe in the God of Abraham who was revealed to me by Mohammed, and a christian says, the God of Abraham is revealed here in this bible from Abraham down to Christ in continuous, unbroken succession there are only two ways the muslim can respond;

1. You lie! The God of Abraham is revealed in unbroken succession in the Koran, and a holy book is a book of truth, so if one thing is wrong in the book, the whole book is wrong. My Koran can’t be wrong so yours is because your bible doesn’t say the same thing my Koran does. OR
2. There are similarities. We seem to have started from Abraham but somehow are not in line with what your bible reveals about God. Maybe God didn’t send Mohammed.

The 2nd reply, shows the belief in the God of Abraham more than faith in Mohammed, so this person can be said to be worshiping the one true God. His response shows where his faith lies.

The 1st reply, shows more faith in Mohammed’s words than in the God of Abraham. This is where all those who ARE still muslims are categorised, otherwise they would not hold so fast to the Koran as they do. Since they show more faith in Mohammed’s account, they believe in the God of Mohammed more than the God of Abraham. They only THINK they believe in the God of Abraham because Mohammed said so! So, it is more proper to say they believe in the God of Mohammed.

Unless there is a way of ascertaining that Mohammed got his revelation from the God of Abraham, the muslims cannot truly be said to worship him.

Now we as christians believe Mohammed did NOT get his revelation from the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, and Mary. So, his revelation is either a non-revelation (In which case i am right to say they believe in a non-entity) OR

His revelation is from the devil (in which case he is the anti-christ). So choose, which conclusion do you like best???

 

[jam070406]

Oh really. Well before we go any further why do you refuse to answer my question? It is so simple.

Did ST Paul follow the GOD OF ABRAHAM and was the GOD OF ABRAHAM the ONE TRUE GOD before he met Jesus. SImple question.

ANd also are you saying Paul did not have faith then, before he met Christ. I am quite confused here.

But we will address this later. Please answer my question did St Paul worship a false God before he met Christ?

We have said those that came AFTER Jesus and deny the Trinity do not know the one True God.
Those that had the Faith of Abraham BEFORE Jesus came to recognize Him/Trinity when He came and became His followers.
Paul knew the law of the one true God that was given to the Jews. If he had Faith why did he kill Christians and then have a conversion by Divine intervention from Jesus?
Are you claiming Paul had the Holy Spirit before his conversion?

 

[rinnie]

Good! Now to be a muslim, you are professing the God of Mohammed, not some unknown God whom christians say is a Trinity. (You have look at it as a muslim does).
If I say, I believe in the God of Abraham who was revealed to me by Mohammed, and a christian says, the God of Abraham is revealed here in this bible from Abraham down to Christ in continuous, unbroken succession there are only two ways the muslim can respond;

1. You lie! The God of Abraham is revealed in unbroken succession in the Koran, and a holy book is a book of truth, so if one thing is wrong in the book, the whole book is wrong. My Koran can’t be wrong so yours is because your bible doesn’t say the same thing my Koran does. OR
2. There are similarities. We seem to have started from Abraham but somehow are not in line with what your bible reveals about God. Maybe God didn’t send Mohammed.

The 2nd reply, shows the belief in the God of Abraham more than faith in Mohammed, so this person can be said to be worshiping the one true God. His response shows where his faith lies.

The 1st reply, shows more faith in Mohammed’s words than in the God of Abraham. This is where all those who ARE still muslims are categorised, otherwise they would not hold so fast to the Koran as they do. Since they show more faith in Mohammed’s account, they believe in the God of Mohammed more than the God of Abraham. They only THINK they believe in the God of Abraham because Mohammed said so! So, it is more proper to say they believe in the God of Mohammed.

Unless there is a way of ascertaining that Mohammed got his revelation from the God of Abraham, the muslims cannot truly be said to worship him.

Now we as christians believe Mohammed did NOT get his revelation from the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, and Mary. So, his revelation is either a non-revelation (In which case i am right to say they believe in a non-entity) OR

His revelation is from the devil (in which case he is the anti-christ). So choose, which conclusion do you like best???

I don’t truly know how to say it property. I agree that his revelation did not come from the True God the GOd of Abraham. But on the other hand we cannot reject ALL of their teachings.

As the Pope says we do have the TRUE GOD in common. WE both believe in ONE GOD the Creator of heaven and earth.

I mean that is a start. But it is that TRUE GOD the Same God that we have that will someday reveal to them that GOD is the One GOd in the Trinity.

But you must remember they don’t have the true word of God, and the ones that do will eventually come to accept it. But you have to remember its going to take ALOT of time. And remember look how many people in this world are taught it, and reject it. But the point of the matter is, when it is revealed to them by the GRACE of God, and God knows that they understand it, if they are his, they will accept it.

Look at the Jews, they had access to the True Word of GOd, and it hasn"t been until recently that they are comming to see it in the light of the Church in record numbers.

God works in very strange ways. But we have to remember GOD knows why and what he is doing. We may not understand everything, and we won’t because we do not have his mind. but we do trust him.

It is our LOVE for him and his Son that will hopefully someday lead the way for them and unite them with him… But we must pray everyday that they can come to see Christ in the true light that was given to us through his Church.

You have to remember they don’t have the Church to teach them. If someone said to you there is only ONE GOD but he is in the 3 persons you have to admit you would be like HUH? IT was the Church that revealed to us the true Mystery, and as we are taught no one truly understands it to the fullest. It is something that only God can know fully. We only know that it is the true word of God because Jesus taught us, and the Church helps explain it to us.

 

[rinnie]

We have said those that came AFTER Jesus and deny the Trinity do not know the one True God.
Those that had the Faith of Abraham BEFORE Jesus came to recognize Him/Trinity when He came and became His followers.
Paul knew the law of the one true God that was given to the Jews. If he had Faith why did he kill Christians and then have a conversion by Divine intervention from Jesus?
Are you claiming Paul had the Holy Spirit before his conversion?

Really? Where did you say all of this.

But anyway that is so far off in left field to what I asked you. SO let me try AGAIN

Did ST Paul before he was converted into the faith of Christ have a false God? Thats all I want to know.