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AnthonyJ
Guest
Does the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church have latinizations? I think I read it is relatively without them compared to some of the other Eastern Catholic Churches.
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mardukm
Guest
Apparently, they did once. There was a recent synodal decision to recover their Syriac roots. It was contested by certain groups of priests and laymen who wanted to maintain some non-Western Syriac traditions (Latin and East Syriac), but they are a minority, IIRC.Does the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church have latinizations? I think I read it is relatively without them compared to some of the other Eastern Catholic Churches.
Blessings
S
SyroMalankara
Guest
There are relatively no latinizations in the Syro-Malankara Church - they most mirror their Orthodox counterparts – some people do have devotional attachments to Stations, the Rosary and/or Adoration, but these are recognized as adopted latin customs and practices.
I am not aware of any controversy in the Malankara Catholic Church by Eastern Syriac leaning and Latin leaning priests…
The Syro-Malabar Church is another story – there are multiple factions competing for power despite the clear teaching of their Holy Synod, their Major Arch Bishop and the Holy Father for the Church to regain its authentic East Syriac roots.
I am not aware of any controversy in the Malankara Catholic Church by Eastern Syriac leaning and Latin leaning priests…
The Syro-Malabar Church is another story – there are multiple factions competing for power despite the clear teaching of their Holy Synod, their Major Arch Bishop and the Holy Father for the Church to regain its authentic East Syriac roots.
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mardukm
Guest
Dear brother Syromalankara,
Blessings,
Marduk
You are, naturally, absolutely correct on the matter. I got really confused between the two Churches in that thread that sister SJ Thaikattil started several months ago, Sorry for the confusion and thank you for the correction.There are relatively no latinizations in the Syro-Malankara Church - they most mirror their Orthodox counterparts – some people do have devotional attachments to Stations, the Rosary and/or Adoration, but these are recognized as adopted latin customs and practices.
I am not aware of any controversy in the Malankara Catholic Church by Eastern Syriac leaning and Latin leaning priests…
The Syro-Malabar Church is another story – there are multiple factions competing for power despite the clear teaching of their Holy Synod, their Major Arch Bishop and the Holy Father for the Church to regain its authentic East Syriac roots.
Blessings,
Marduk
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josethomas2005
Guest
If I tell the fact, the founder of the Syro Malankara Catholic church, Mar Ivanios is resposible for the factionism within the Syriac Orthodox church in Kerala. namely one faction under the Patriarch of Antioch and one faction against the rule of Antioch. Mar Ivanios, in 1900s invited the deposed Patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius Abdul messiah to Kerala and consecrated the leader of the opposite faction as Catholicos of Malankara orthodox church. Thus factionism developed in to its zenith. Now there were 2 factions, one under the authorised Patriarch, Ignatius Abdullah and other giving loyalty to deposed Patriarch Ignatius Abdul Messiah. The historians and scholars say that Mar Ivanios was a croocked man or an opportunist.
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SyroMalankara
Guest
Mr Jose Thomas,
I hope you retract that statement regarding Mar Ivanios - he is considered a Servant of God to Catholics and is expected to be recognizex as a Saint in the near future.
I wonder if you’ve heard about Mar Ivanios from rhetorical sources and propagandists rather than those closest to him - how can a man who left everything behind, including the very building of the Order that he founded and was legally possessor - be called “an opportunist”.
It was the anti-Patriarchal faction of the Malankara Church that decided to designate Mar Ivanios as the bishop in charge of reunion, when the time to actually reunite came, he was standing alone — see the story of Mar Bawai Soro of the Assyrian Church for quite a few similarities, he is also called various terrible names by his detractors.
I hope you retract that statement regarding Mar Ivanios - he is considered a Servant of God to Catholics and is expected to be recognizex as a Saint in the near future.
I wonder if you’ve heard about Mar Ivanios from rhetorical sources and propagandists rather than those closest to him - how can a man who left everything behind, including the very building of the Order that he founded and was legally possessor - be called “an opportunist”.
It was the anti-Patriarchal faction of the Malankara Church that decided to designate Mar Ivanios as the bishop in charge of reunion, when the time to actually reunite came, he was standing alone — see the story of Mar Bawai Soro of the Assyrian Church for quite a few similarities, he is also called various terrible names by his detractors.
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josethomas2005
Guest
Then why did Mar Ivanios invite the deposed Patriarch in to Kerala church so that it will provide a chance for all to give validity to anti Patriarchal faction. Now the Catholicos faction is questioning the validity of the see of Antioch based on this. Also if you can give me the reason for the deposition of Patriarch Ignatius Abdul Messiah.Mr Jose Thomas,
I hope you retract that statement regarding Mar Ivanios - he is considered a Servant of God to Catholics and is expected to be recognizex as a Saint in the near future.
I wonder if you’ve heard about Mar Ivanios from rhetorical sources and propagandists rather than those closest to him - how can a man who left everything behind, including the very building of the Order that he founded and was legally possessor - be called “an opportunist”.
It was the anti-Patriarchal faction of the Malankara Church that decided to designate Mar Ivanios as the bishop in charge of reunion, when the time to actually reunite came, he was standing alone — see the story of Mar Bawai Soro of the Assyrian Church for quite a few similarities, he is also called various terrible names by his detractors.
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mardukm
Guest
Dear brother josethomas,
Can someone please explain how a Catholic prelate can consecrate a non-Catholic prelate? Or was the consecration done before Mar Ivanios joined the Catholic communion?
Blessings
How can you blame the actions of the Catholicos faction on anyone else. Did the Catholicos faction not exist prior to the invitation of Mar Ivanios?Then why did Mar Ivanios invite the deposed Patriarch in to Kerala church so that it will provide a chance for all to give validity to anti Patriarchal faction. Now the Catholicos faction is questioning the validity of the see of Antioch based on this. Also if you can give me the reason for the deposition of Patriarch Ignatius Abdul Messiah.
Can someone please explain how a Catholic prelate can consecrate a non-Catholic prelate? Or was the consecration done before Mar Ivanios joined the Catholic communion?
Blessings
J
josethomas2005
Guest
Yes, The consecration and invitation were happened before Mar Ivanios joined with Catholic church. Mar Ivanios joined the catholic church in 1920s (last). The invitation of deposed patriarch happened in the last of 1900s. This was done by Mar Ivanios. The thing is that the deposed Patriarch Ignatios Abdul Messiah joined the Catholic church by meeting with the Syriac Catholic patriarch Ignatios Rahmani. Then discussions were going on with the anti patriarchal faction and Catholic church. The anti patriarchal faction decided to join the Catholic church.Dear brother josethomas,
How can you blame the actions of the Catholicos faction on anyone else. Did the Catholicos faction not exist prior to the invitation of Mar Ivanios?
Can someone please explain how a Catholic prelate can consecrate a non-Catholic prelate? Or was the consecration done before Mar Ivanios joined the Catholic communion?
Blessings
I think the real reason for the split in the Syriac orthodox was based on a large sum of money called ‘vattippanam’ which was under the possession of British governement in India. Fearing that the one faction of Syriac orthodox would join the Catholic church, British government by using their judicial court ordered that the owner of the money is the anti patriarchal faction. After getting this large sum of money, their decision to join the Catholic church stopped. But Mar Ivanios sincere with the decision to join the catholic church, joined the catholic church with just another bishop. There formed the Syro malankara catholic church.
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SyroMalankara
Guest
How was this done by Mar Ivanios? Did he do so on his own or did the Synod tell Mar Ivanios that he was in charge of such and such a task? I highly doubt he acted without any Synodal vote or decision being given to him as his responsibility.Yes, The consecration and invitation were happened before Mar Ivanios joined with Catholic church. Mar Ivanios joined the catholic church in 1920s (last). The invitation of deposed patriarch happened in the last of 1900s. This was done by Mar Ivanios. The thing is that the deposed Patriarch Ignatios Abdul Messiah joined the Catholic church by meeting with the Syriac Catholic patriarch Ignatios Rahmani. Then discussions were going on with the anti patriarchal faction and Catholic church. The anti patriarchal faction decided to join the Catholic church.
Here is an interesting read of the history of the time of Patriarchs Ignatios Abdul Mesiah and Ignatios Abdullah:I think the real reason for the split in the Syriac orthodox was based on a large sum of money called ‘vattippanam’ which was under the possession of British governement in India. Fearing that the one faction of Syriac orthodox would join the Catholic church, British government by using their judicial court ordered that the owner of the money is the anti patriarchal faction. After getting this large sum of money, their decision to join the Catholic church stopped. But Mar Ivanios sincere with the decision to join the catholic church, joined the catholic church with just another bishop. There formed the Syro malankara catholic church.
icon.org.in/iconarchives_malankaramyths.icon?method=getArticle&id=9
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James_Miller
Guest
As Chesterton said Mar Ivanios was the Cardinal Newman of the 20th century. And I would add the only person to practice true ecumenism.
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josethomas2005
Guest
Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius Yusuf Younan is visiting the Syro malankara catholic church in these days. The celebration of Malankara catholic unity with catholic church is now going on. He is coming after attending the meting of all the eastern catholic church heads conducted in Rome by Pope.
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lukathomas
Guest
I have not heard of any latinisation in Syro Malankara. Of course western pieties are some what popular among the members.
History
In 1923, George Mar Dionysios,(the metran party- anti patriarchal party) visited the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch at Homs and tried to obtain a compromise between two parties ( Metran Party and Patriarch party of Malankara) but this was not successful. Mar Dionysios also met the Syrian Catholic Church Metropolitan of Baghdad ( who was in communion with Rome), who urged him to reunite with Rome. Two letters from the Syrian Catholic Patriarch of Antioch did the same. At a meeting in 1926, the Orthodox Syriac ( Orthodox) , choose Mar Ivanios of Bethany to open correspondence with Rome. Eventually, except Mar Theophilos, all the other Bishops were reluctant to take any decisive step.
In 1930 the Syro-Malankara Church came into being as an Eastern rite of the Catholic Church when some Malankara Orthodox Syriac under the leadership of Mar Ivanios joined Catholic Church. In 1932, two more Bishops from Malankara Church joined this Church. Mar Severios of the Malankara Orthodox in 1937 and Mar Dioscoros of the Syriac Orthodox ( Jacobite) in 1939 joined Syro Malankara Church. The Church was raised to a Major Archiepiscopal Sui iuris Church in 2005.
About the name
Officially Syro Malankara Catholic Church is used. Other names used are Malankara Catholics.
About Syro Malankara Church Liturgy
The Syro Malankara Church uses the West Syriac text with a translation into Malayalam. A number of books has been printed since 1937. A missal was printed in Tiruvilla in 1949, which had the Anaphora of Mar Xystos, with the ordinary of the mass, five common gospels and eight supplementary Prumion – Sedre. This edition has a standard translation in Malayalam.
Source- nasrani.net/2007/01/14/saint-thomas-christians-history-of-divisions-churches/
Servent of God Mar Ivanios
http://www.syromalankara.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/20070629_mar_ivanios.jpg
History
In 1923, George Mar Dionysios,(the metran party- anti patriarchal party) visited the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch at Homs and tried to obtain a compromise between two parties ( Metran Party and Patriarch party of Malankara) but this was not successful. Mar Dionysios also met the Syrian Catholic Church Metropolitan of Baghdad ( who was in communion with Rome), who urged him to reunite with Rome. Two letters from the Syrian Catholic Patriarch of Antioch did the same. At a meeting in 1926, the Orthodox Syriac ( Orthodox) , choose Mar Ivanios of Bethany to open correspondence with Rome. Eventually, except Mar Theophilos, all the other Bishops were reluctant to take any decisive step.
In 1930 the Syro-Malankara Church came into being as an Eastern rite of the Catholic Church when some Malankara Orthodox Syriac under the leadership of Mar Ivanios joined Catholic Church. In 1932, two more Bishops from Malankara Church joined this Church. Mar Severios of the Malankara Orthodox in 1937 and Mar Dioscoros of the Syriac Orthodox ( Jacobite) in 1939 joined Syro Malankara Church. The Church was raised to a Major Archiepiscopal Sui iuris Church in 2005.
About the name
Officially Syro Malankara Catholic Church is used. Other names used are Malankara Catholics.
About Syro Malankara Church Liturgy
The Syro Malankara Church uses the West Syriac text with a translation into Malayalam. A number of books has been printed since 1937. A missal was printed in Tiruvilla in 1949, which had the Anaphora of Mar Xystos, with the ordinary of the mass, five common gospels and eight supplementary Prumion – Sedre. This edition has a standard translation in Malayalam.
Source- nasrani.net/2007/01/14/saint-thomas-christians-history-of-divisions-churches/
Servent of God Mar Ivanios
http://www.syromalankara.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/20070629_mar_ivanios.jpg
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mathewjoseph
Guest
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pjk123
Guest
Has Syro-Malankara rite accepts Hindu converts from nadar(especially) community in Trivandrum region? Have Heard about this recently.
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Hesychios
Guest
Would the Syro-Malankara Catholic church be willing to put itself under the authority of the Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch?Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius Yusuf Younan is visiting the Syro malankara catholic church in these days. The celebration of Malankara catholic unity with catholic church is now going on. He is coming after attending the meting of all the eastern catholic church heads conducted in Rome by Pope.
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lukathomas
Guest
I think there is no relevance to such a question. At no time the Church was under the Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch.
Syro Malankara Church is a Major Archiepiscopal Sui Iuris Church which has its on characteristics.
Considering the Indian Situation Syro Malankara Church has every right to be classified as a Patriarchal Church.
Both the two Eastern Catholic Churches in India, the Syro Malankara Church and Syro Malabar Church has been trying for Patriarchal status along with Ukrainine Greek Catholic Church.This has started long time back under Arch Bishop Mar Powathil of Syro Malabar Church and Major Arch Bishop Moran Mor Cyril Baselios of Syro Malankara Church.
In the Indian situation, the major blow was the infighting between the latin and oriental lobby in Syro Malabar Church and the continued existence of latinisers in SMC. Because of this and due to some opposition from latin rite in India Rome has not yet granted full jurisdictional rights and patriarchal status to both these churches.
When the situation improves we hope that at any time in future both the Syro Malankara Church and Syro Malabar Church would gain Patriarchal Status…
Syro Malankara Church is a Major Archiepiscopal Sui Iuris Church which has its on characteristics.
Considering the Indian Situation Syro Malankara Church has every right to be classified as a Patriarchal Church.
Both the two Eastern Catholic Churches in India, the Syro Malankara Church and Syro Malabar Church has been trying for Patriarchal status along with Ukrainine Greek Catholic Church.This has started long time back under Arch Bishop Mar Powathil of Syro Malabar Church and Major Arch Bishop Moran Mor Cyril Baselios of Syro Malankara Church.
In the Indian situation, the major blow was the infighting between the latin and oriental lobby in Syro Malabar Church and the continued existence of latinisers in SMC. Because of this and due to some opposition from latin rite in India Rome has not yet granted full jurisdictional rights and patriarchal status to both these churches.
When the situation improves we hope that at any time in future both the Syro Malankara Church and Syro Malabar Church would gain Patriarchal Status…
R
rosemary2009
Guest
Some parts of the Holy mass celebrated by the Catholicos Major Arch Bishop of Syro Malankara Catholic Church Baselios Mor Cleemis is available in the following:
youtube.com/watch?v=UAAwMxpZI4w
youtube.com/watch?v=UAAwMxpZI4w
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ninan
Guest
In fact,Msgr Joseph Kuzhinjalil of Syro Malabar diocese of Pala,and the Daughters of Mary congregation founded by him,were instrumental in converting ‘Nadars’ to catholic fold.
Msgr Kuzhinjalil ,on the instructions of Servant of God,Arch Bishop 'Mar Ivanios,worked hard to establish the Kanyakumari mission of Syro Malankara Church.
Now a diocese has been formed exclusively for ‘nadar’ Syro Malankara Catholics at Marthandom,Tamil Nadu.
The Platinum Jubilee of the mission was celebrated recently.The Syrian Catholic Patriarch of Antioch was the special guest on the occasion.
Dr.Lawrence Mar Ephraem was the first Bishop of the Marthandom Diocese.
Bishop Dr.Youhanon Mar Chrysostem is the present Bishop.
Click the following link for the photos.
malankaracatholicchurch.net/photogallery_79threunion_home.html
Msgr Kuzhinjalil ,on the instructions of Servant of God,Arch Bishop 'Mar Ivanios,worked hard to establish the Kanyakumari mission of Syro Malankara Church.
Now a diocese has been formed exclusively for ‘nadar’ Syro Malankara Catholics at Marthandom,Tamil Nadu.
The Platinum Jubilee of the mission was celebrated recently.The Syrian Catholic Patriarch of Antioch was the special guest on the occasion.
Dr.Lawrence Mar Ephraem was the first Bishop of the Marthandom Diocese.
Bishop Dr.Youhanon Mar Chrysostem is the present Bishop.
Click the following link for the photos.
malankaracatholicchurch.net/photogallery_79threunion_home.html
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