T.C.C.D.N.W. Syndrome - The Church Can Do No Wrong

  • Thread starter Thread starter MindOverMatter2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MindOverMatter2

Guest
I don’t usually agree with leela on anything. But I think she has exposed or at least pointed out an error that resides in the thinking of lay persons in the catholic faith. When ever a Pope or a Priest is involved in a scandal, there is this knee jerk reaction from Catholics who think they are being loyal by trying to explain away reasonably evident errors, which they wouldn’t do in the case of ordinary people outside of the faith.They think they are performing apologetics, but really they are just trying to give the church a clean image, much like when government spokespersons try to give the government a clean image when they have evidently errored. Giving a different point of view would be fine accept they seem to be opposed to the idea that there have been evil Priests Popes Bishops and Catholics in general in past. They have what I call “the church can do no wrong” syndrome, or T.C.C.D.N.W.

I think its important that we accept the failings of Pope Priests and Bishops in doing what Christ has told them, instead of covering them up or giving them special treatment. Why has it taken so long for the Church to admit that they made errors concerning Galileo? And what about how the child abuse scandal was dealt with? And yet there are still Catholics out there behaving as if no such error occurred when there has clearly been an official apoligee. Its like people who say that the holocaust never happened, when clearly it did. Now I agree that sometimes the truth is blown out of proportion by propagandists who hate the faith. But still, I think that people would have more respect for the Church if they admitted their errors warts and all straight away and began making amends instead of covering them up. I really do think that people dislike the church for genuine reasons that are not motivated by some selfish hatred, but rather by the evil actions of those in authoritative positions. Sometimes its seems as if the church behaves like a government keeping secrets and never letting people know about them until 200 years later after the fact. No wonder there are conspiracy theories saying that the church is involved in some illumanati one world order ****. Its because of the way they behave with information.

I am upset because I like being a Catholic and I don’t want to feel morally embarrassed about it:mad:. Its one thing to be hated for the wrong reasons, but its quite another thing to be hated for legitimate moral reasons. The leaders of our faith ought to be the moral light of our world. They are meant to be examples of good leadership. Right now, that idea is being seriously undermined, and nobody seems to see it accept those living at ground zero, instead of in a palace.

I think its important for lay Catholic’s to rebuke Priests Bishops and Popes when they are not performing as they should. The Pope is not God. I think that’s our moral duty, and we are doing the faith no good by trying to explain away errors that are reasonably evident.

T.C.C.D.N.W. Syndrome is dangerous for the Catholic faith.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
I don’t usually agree with leela on anything. But I think she has exposed or at least pointed out an error that resides in the thinking of lay persons in the catholic faith. When ever a Pope or a Priest is involved in a scandal, there is this knee jerk reaction from Catholics who think they are being loyal by trying to explain away reasonably evident errors, which they wouldn’t do in the case of ordinary people outside of the faith.They think they are performing apologetics, but really they are just trying to give the church a clean image, much like when government spokespersons try to give the government a clean image when they have evidently errored. Giving a different point of view would be fine accept they seem to be opposed to the idea that there have been evil Priests Popes Bishops and Catholics in general in past. They have what I call “the church can do no wrong” syndrome, or T.C.C.D.N.W.

I think its important that we accept the failings of Pope Priests and Bishops in doing what Christ has told them, instead of covering them up or giving them special treatment. Why has it taken so long for the Church to admit that they made errors concerning Galileo? And what about how the child abuse scandal was dealt with? And yet there are still Catholics out there behaving as if no such error occurred when there has clearly been an official apoligee. Its like people who say that the holocaust never happened, when clearly it did. Now I agree that sometimes the truth is blown out of proportion by propagandists who hate the faith. But still, I think that people would have more respect for the Church if they admitted their errors warts and all straight away and began making amends instead of covering them up. I really do think that people dislike the church for genuine reasons that are not motivated by some selfish hatred, but rather by the evil actions of those in authoritative positions. Sometimes its seems as if the church behaves like a government keeping secrets and never letting people know about them until 200 years later after the fact. No wonder there are conspiracy theories saying that the church is involved in some illumanati one world order ****. Its because of the way they behave with information.

I am upset because I like being a Catholic and I don’t want to feel morally embarrassed about it:mad:. Its one thing to be hated for the wrong reasons, but its quite another thing to be hated for legitimate moral reasons. The leaders of our faith ought to be the moral light of our world. They are meant to be examples of good leadership. Right now, that idea is being seriously undermined, and nobody seems to see it accept those living at ground zero, instead of in a palace.

I think its important for lay Catholic’s to rebuke Priests Bishops and Popes when they are not performing as they should. The Pope is not God. I think that’s our moral duty, and we are doing the faith no good by trying to explain away errors that are reasonably evident.

T.C.C.D.N.W. Syndrome is dangerous for the Catholic faith.
Click to expand...
So what have you done to complain and point out problems?

You understand that the syndrome you’ve created is a companion to the atheist version: L.K.P.G.I.E.C.F. and L.B.T.G.F.A.N.A.L.A.D.H.

Let’s Keep Putting Galileo In Every Catholic’s Face

Let’s Beat The Global Flood And Noah Account Like A Dead Horse

God bless,
ED
 
edwest2 said:
So what have you done to complain and point out problems?

You understand that the syndrome you’ve created is a companion to the atheist version: L.K.P.G.I.E.C.F. and L.B.T.G.F.A.N.A.L.A.D.H.

Let’s Keep Putting Galileo In Every Catholic’s Face

Let’s Beat The Global Flood And Noah Account Like A Dead Horse

God bless,
ED
Click to expand...
You have made a not well thought out straw-man of my argument.

Well, you obviously have the syndrome; otherwise you could agree with me for the sake of progress instead of taking offence as if you are being attacked.
 
edwest2 said:
Let’s Keep Putting Galileo In Every Catholic’s Face

Let’s Beat The Global Flood And Noah Account Like A Dead Horse
ED
Click to expand...
There’s good evidence to support the account of the Great Flood. What’s your point?

Also, the Church is not the Pope, Bishops, and priests. The Church is not a human institution first. The failings in the “Church” are of the human element.
 
Timely post, thank you for putting into clear words what I’ve been thinking. I agree, we shouldn’t blindly defend people in the Church under the guise of defending the Church.
 
**You are falling into the T.C.C.D.N.R. (R = RIGHT) Syndrome, which is exactly what Satan wants!

You are making the fatal error of confusing the Church, “The Body of Christ”, with the human, flawed & sinful members of the Church.

You sound eerily like the people of Jesus’ day who said “Crucify him.” (MK 13:15).

These same unbelievers said; “Look at who He chose to be His Apostles. Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him 3 times & they all abandoned Him! There is no way Jesus can be Divine because the people He selected & trained are sinners!!!”

As a Catholic you should understand the basics. The Church can do no wrong!

Just because we are all sinners, doesn’t mean the Church & more importantly Jesus, are not the Fullness of the Truth…

Jesus taught us; “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” (MT 16:18)

We all need to pray for humility & understanding!**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
I find the foibles of Catholic leaders quite understandable and fully to be expected. There were “bad guys” in the Church from the get-go from Judas to those who wanted to oppress Gentile believers and make them into second class Jewish converts. The Church’s history is replete with villains and heroes. The men who lead the Church are just as human as the rest of us. And on top of that, most of them are of a higher intelligence and so more prone to sins of the ego. The higher a position a man gains the farther he has to fall. This is why our bishops, priests, deacons, and religious of both sexes need our daily prayers. Any Catholic who thinks our leaders aren’t tempted in every way possible and aren’t under great scrutiny and so great stress, is living in la-la-land. It’s a wicked world out there and our leaders are on the front lines, taking the brunt of Satan’s blows. We need to pray, pray, pray, and pray some more for them each and every day.
 
On the other hand, doesn’t everyone, including the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, have the right to due diligence before being persecuted in public? Isn’t there such a thing as a charitable silence or at least give the benefit of the doubt to the accused? Sounds an awful lot like the Jews screaming, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!” Blood lust type of thing.

Satan’s having a hay day through his minions in the media. I recommend we not become complicit in their actions. The Holy Spirit works most often like the quiet breeze.
 
Alexander_Smith said:
Also, the Church is not the Pope, Bishops, and priests. The Church is not a human institution first. The failings in the “Church” are of the human element.
Click to expand...
To add to this. In my humble opinion, there are very few people who truly have a full understanding of the visible Catholic Church including its purpose and role on this earth.
 
Mark77 said:
**You are falling into the T.C.C.D.N.R. (R = RIGHT) Syndrome, which is exactly what Satan wants!

You are making the fatal error of confusing the Church, “The Body of Christ”, with the human, flawed & sinful members of the Church.

You sound eerily like the people of Jesus’ day who said “Crucify him.” (MK 13:15).**

These same unbelievers said; “Look at who He chose to be His Apostles. Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him 3 times & they all abandoned Him! There is no way Jesus can be Divine because the people He selected & trained are sinners!!!”

As a Catholic you should understand the basics. The Church can do no wrong!

Just because we are all sinners, doesn’t mean the Church & more importantly Jesus, are not the Fullness of the Truth…

Jesus taught us; “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” (MT 16:18)

We all need to pray for humility & understanding!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
Click to expand...
The OP is presented within a certain context. You have either ignored that context or you have failed to perceive it. I believe that if you had bothered to read the OP properly, you would have understood its proper context, and you would have realised that I was not talking about “Catholic theology” Or “dogma” or the Church as the body of Christ; but rather I was talking about Church authorities and how they have operated in the past regarding certain issues, and how certain groups, who perceive them selves as loyalists, have laboured to explain away those errors which have been made in the name of the faith. By doing so they have caused considerable harm, and its effecting us Catholics in the here and now.

The devil is very subtle and does not want progress; does not want the world to see the true faith; and he does this by influencing people to do evil in the name of the faith; and influences its members to blindly justify errors done in the name of the faith. You should be careful that you are not one of those people.
 
Scoobyshme said:
On the other hand, doesn’t everyone, including the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, have the right to due diligence before being persecuted in public? Isn’t there such a thing as a charitable silence or at least give the benefit of the doubt to the accused? Sounds an awful lot like the Jews screaming, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!” Blood lust type of thing.

Satan’s having a hay day through his minions in the media. I recommend we not become complicit in their actions. The Holy Spirit works most often like the quiet breeze.
Click to expand...
Yes, and all too often any priest who is merely accused becomes a target of the media and of every anti-Catholic with an agenda. The world hates the Church because it is divine and of divine origin. While the human element can and does sin, the Church in its divinity can do no wrong. No pope no matter how bad ever managed to thwart the divine mission of the Church. My heart really goes out to our good Pope Benedict who is taking the heat for the failings of others. He’s undergoing his own crucifixion with the scandals, poor soul. He deserves all our prayers and support.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
The OP is presented within a certain context. You have either ignored that context or you have failed to perceive it. I believe that if you had bothered to read the OP properly, you would have understood its proper context, and you would have realised that I was not talking about “Catholic theology” Or “dogma” or the Church as the body of Christ; but rather I was talking about Church authorities and how they have operated in the past regarding certain issues, and how certain groups, who perceive them selves as loyalists, have laboured to explain away those errors which have been made in the name of the faith. By doing so they have caused considerable harm, and its effecting us Catholics in the here and now.
Click to expand...
That seems to happen to me a lot too. I don’t know what it is with these forums, another forum I frequent is very much a secually themed and I rarely get anyone trying to change the nature of my statements or the discussion, everyone tends to stick directly to the points at hand. I would like to know where this comes from.
 
grannymh said:
To add to this. In my humble opinion, there are very few people who truly have a full understanding of the visible Catholic Church including its purpose and role on this earth.
Click to expand...
Hopefully, I am wrong about my observation. Thus, I have started a thread, “What is Catholicism?” in the Philosophy Forum.

Blessings,
granny

The quest for truth is part of human nature.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
The OP is presented within a certain context. You have either ignored that context or you have failed to perceive it. I believe that if you had bothered to read the OP properly, you would have understood its proper context, and you would have realised that I was not talking about “Catholic theology” Or “dogma” or the Church as the body of Christ; but rather I was talking about Church authorities and how they have operated in the past regarding certain issues, and how certain groups, who perceive them selves as loyalists, have laboured to explain away those errors which have been made in the name of the faith. By doing so they have caused considerable harm, and its effecting us Catholics in the here and now.
Click to expand...
In my humble opinion, one of the better ways of dealing with human error by authorities within the Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ is to present the true spiritual purpose and position of the “Church”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top